Need Help With Ravenna drivers in AUdio Linux

Hello All,

I have Merging NADAC (2 Ch.) as dac which is connected directly to my desktop through Lan cable (Supra Cables) which is running Roon + HQPlayer (V4).

I had installed Audio Linux as dual boot option on another SSD along with my Windows 10. While drivers and audio works/playback works generally fine (in Audio Linux), some times randomly the audio stops even though the playback continues on Roon. When I check the source on the DAC it shows the server (desktop connected) and I can even check the NADAC setting through it's web interface. To get the sound back, I either have to restart the dac or I have to switch to some other audio input (either of Co-axial/Optical/AES) and then switch back to the server. After doing this I am able to get the sound back which is quite strange. I am not able to pin down on the issue as I have tried the recommended Ethernet adapter settings and still the issue shows up randomly.

One solution is to go back to Windows, but I personally like the sound more with Audio Linux than with Windows. Even on windows sometimes I get this issue.

Any help in identifying the cause of this issue is welcome, especially those who have experience with Ravenna drivers or Merging products especially in Linux environment.

Regards,

Audio_phool

4 minutes ago, Audio_phool said:

Hello All,

 

I have Merging NADAC (2 Ch.) as dac which is connected directly to my desktop through Lan cable (Supra Cables) which is running Roon + HQPlayer (V4).

 

I had installed Audio Linux as dual boot option on another SSD along with my Windows 10. While drivers and audio works/playback works generally fine (in Audio Linux), some times randomly the audio stops even though the playback continues on Roon. When I check the source on the DAC it shows the server (desktop connected) and I can even check the NADAC setting through it's web interface. To get the sound back, I either have to restart the dac or I have to switch to some other audio input (either of Co-axial/Optical/AES) and then switch back to the server. After doing this I am able to get the sound back which is quite strange. I am not able to pin down on the issue as I have tried the recommended Ethernet adapter settings and still the issue shows up randomly.

One solution is to go back to Windows, but I personally like the sound more with Audio Linux than with Windows. Even on windows sometimes I get this issue.

 

Any help in identifying the cause of this issue is welcome, especially those who have experience with Ravenna drivers or Merging products especially in Linux environment.

 

Regards,

Audio_phool

I use Ravenna every day, and I'm using it now as I type this. On macOS and Windows I haven't seen anything like your issue. On Linux, I've seen several issues that I can generally work through without too much pain.

The key is to find out where the music is being "stopped." For example, in one of my audio chains I have Apple Music outputting to Hang Loose Convolver to a Merging Anubis. Each step in the playback chain has audio indicators, showing if I have input/output. If there's a problem with Apple Music, the track time counter won't move, for example. Or, if  Music outputs audio but HLC doesn't show movement, then it's an HLC issue, etc...

You should see if you can trace the audio from start to finish somehow. Also, remove as many variables as possible to start. Just use Roon or just use HQP for testing. Then use everything.

If you use ANEMAN, check to see what it says when you loose audio. 

Step 1:

Step 2:

Step 3:

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I use Ravenna every day, and I'm using it now as I type this. On macOS and Windows I haven't seen anything like your issue. On Linux, I've seen several issues that I can generally work through without too much pain.

 

The key is to find out where the music is being "stopped." For example, in one of my audio chains I have Apple Music outputting to Hang Loose Convolver to a Merging Anubis. Each step in the playback chain has audio indicators, showing if I have input/output. If there's a problem with Apple Music, the track time counter won't move, for example. Or, if  Music outputs audio but HLC doesn't show movement, then it's an HLC issue, etc...

 

You should see if you can trace the audio from start to finish somehow. Also, remove as many variables as possible to start. Just use Roon or just use HQP for testing. Then use everything.

 

If you use ANEMAN, check to see what it says when you loose audio. 

@The Computer Audiophile I have not installed Aneman on Audio Linux. I was not sure if it is compatible with Linux (in this case Arch linux). How easy it is to configure Aneman correctly in Linux? Also if you could share the Network or any other settings that makes your playback smooth, that would be helpful.

I have disabled the "Wake on Lan" for my network adapter which is connected directly to NADAC.

Regards,

Audiio_phool

1 minute ago, Audio_phool said:

 

@The Computer Audiophile I have not installed Aneman on Audio Linux. I was not sure if it is compatible with Linux (in this case Arch linux). How easy it is to configure Aneman correctly in Linux? Also if you could share the Network or any other settings that makes your playback smooth, that would be helpful.

I have disabled the "Wake on Lan" for my network adapter which is connected directly to NADAC.

 

Regards,

Audiio_phool

There isn't an ANEMAN version for Linux. It would need to be installed on the same network as the Linux PC and NADAC. If you're Linux is connected directly to NADAC, this will be an issue. I use a Netgear AVLine switch for all my Ravenna stuff. It works great. 

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

There isn't an ANEMAN version for Linux. It would need to be installed on the same network as the Linux PC and NADAC. If you're Linux is connected directly to NADAC, this will be an issue. I use a Netgear AVLine switch for all my Ravenna stuff. It works great. 

Yeah, even I was wondering when did Merging release the version of Aneman for Linux 😅. Can you explain  if you know why connecting Linux (or computer having Linux) directly to NADAC? Because i think this is the simplest and most straight forward way of connecting NADAC to any server/computer? Unfortunately Merging does not officially provide support for linux in case of NADAC, else I would have taken their help on this matter.

Incidentally, when I was using only windows 10 (which was for more than 1 year) I never faced such issue. Only after I went for the dual boot involving Audio linux, I have started to face the issue & some times on Windows as well. Since sonic difference and sonic signature which Audio linux offers to me is what i love, I want to resolve this issue and use only the Audio linux for all playback.

My only guess is that some component on the network board of the dac might have developed some issue due to which this is happening or this is some firmware related issue which makes this issue happen.
 

Regrads,

Audio_phool

3 minutes ago, Audio_phool said:

 

Yeah, even I was wondering when did Merging release the version of Aneman for Linux 😅. Can you explain  if you know why connecting Linux (or computer having Linux) directly to NADAC? Because i think this is the simplest and most straight forward way of connecting NADAC to any server/computer? Unfortunately Merging does not officially provide support for linux in case of NADAC, else I would have taken their help on this matter.

Incidentally, when I was using only windows 10 (which was for more than 1 year) I never faced such issue. Only after I went for the dual boot involving Audio linux, I have started to face the issue & some times on Windows as well. Since sonic difference and sonic signature which Audio linux offers to me is what i love, I want to resolve this issue and use only the Audio linux for all playback.

 

My only guess is that some component on the network board of the dac might have developed some issue due to which this is happening or this is some firmware related issue which makes this issue happen.
 

Regrads,

Audio_phool

You can certainly connect directly to a NADAC. No issue there. But, if you want to use ANEMAN, you'll need to, at least temporarily, use a switch and another PC running Windows or macOS for only the ANEMAN part. 

Is there a firmware update for the NADAC? Perhaps reset the NADAC to defaults and setup everything again.

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You can certainly connect directly to a NADAC. No issue there. But, if you want to use ANEMAN, you'll need to, at least temporarily, use a switch and another PC running Windows or macOS for only the ANEMAN part. 

 

Is there a firmware update for the NADAC? Perhaps reset the NADAC to defaults and setup everything again.

Ahh, so you were talking about Aneman...yeah, in linux environment I will need another PC on Windows or MacOs & a switch.

Surprisingly their last stable published firmware also gives issues & i am using one of their beta version of firmware which Merging support gave me. As per the Merging support this beta version resolves some of the issues of the last stable release.

I do remember you talking to Master Fidelity about their new NADAC D dac, which also has the same networking capabilities as that of old NADAC. If you can check with them about releasing support for linux for their new NADAC D, then even older NADAC users can benefit from this support I guess. I have checked the network board and NADAC (old) uses the board for Horus, so I am guessing that they are keeping the network board same/similar across the products for better support and lesser work/confusion on their side.

Regards,

Audio_phool

@The Computer Audiophile can share any network adapter or power related settings which you would have made to make everything work smoothly in Linux?

Regards,

Audio_phool

5 minutes ago, Audio_phool said:

@The Computer Audiophile can share any network adapter or power related settings which you would have made to make everything work smoothly in Linux?

 

Regards,

Audio_phool

I haven't adjusted a single setting on any of my Linux machines using Ravenna. Same for macOS. The Windows machines have required some adjustments.

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I haven't adjusted a single setting on any of my Linux machines using Ravenna. Same for macOS. The Windows machines have required some adjustments.

Ohh, that's surprising! On windows 10 everything worked for me without touching a single setting. But I had to turn off Wake On Lan and Energy Saving options of Ethernet adapter in Audio Linux to make everything work.

Below is Merging's support article for Ethernet adapter settings which I referred and tried to replicate settings whereever possible.

https://merging.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/PUBLICDOC/pages/4817173/RAVENNA+ASIO+recommended+Network+Adapter

Regards,

Audio_phool

@The Computer Audiophile One more question regarding your setup involving Linux, Ravenna and Anubis. Which category of ethernet cable do you use? Do you use Cat 6A/7/8 cables or Cat 6/5E cables? I am using cat 8 cable to connect the computer to NADAC. Merging has not mentioned anything about Cat 6A/7/8 so i am wondering whether my issue is because of Cat 8 cable.

Regards,
Audio_phool

56 minutes ago, Audio_phool said:

@The Computer Audiophile One more question regarding your setup involving Linux, Ravenna and Anubis. Which category of ethernet cable do you use? Do you use Cat 6A/7/8 cables or Cat 6/5E cables? I am using cat 8 cable to connect the computer to NADAC. Merging has not mentioned anything about Cat 6A/7/8 so i am wondering whether my issue is because of Cat 8 cable.

Regards,
Audio_phool

I'm using CAt6A cabling.

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm using CAt6A cabling.

How are you grounding the shielding of the cable or are you keeping it floating at both ends?

Regards,

Audio_phool

4 minutes ago, Audio_phool said:

How are you grounding the shielding of the cable or are you keeping it floating at both ends?

 

Regards,

Audio_phool

Because my cable runs are lengthy, I'm using this stock cabling:

Monoprice Cat6A 50ft White 5-Pk Patch Cable UTP 30AWG 10G Pure Bare Copper Snagless RJ45 SlimRun Series Ethernet Cable

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GGL52ZW/

12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Monoprice Cat6A 50ft White 5-Pk Patch Cable UTP 30AWG 10G Pure Bare Copper Snagless RJ45 SlimRun Series Ethernet Cable

Looks like the shield is floating. Sometimes some of these issues are just beyond understanding & makes you frustrated a lot.

Regards,

Audio_phool

On 8/22/2024 at 6:28 AM, Audio_phool said:

I have checked the network board and NADAC (old) uses the board for Horus, so I am guessing that they are keeping the network board same/similar across the products for better support and lesser work/confusion on their side.

It baffles me that Merging is still using that giant old Horus network board in the NADAC instead of their own ZMAN OEM module:

https://www.merging.com/products/zman-oem    AFAIK, Happy Mk.II is the only Merging product utilizing ZMAN.

The board has been out for many years now.  Back when it was introduced, some were claiming that with this module Ravenna/AES67 was going to quickly achieve hegemony in the Ethernet-input-equipped DAC market, but aside from maybe 3-5 pro-sound processors and cards, 3rd-party ZMAN usage has not happened much at all.  Oh well. 

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

It baffles me that Merging is still using that giant old Horus network board in the NADAC instead of their own ZMAN OEM module:

https://www.merging.com/products/zman-oem    AFAIK, Happy Mk.II is the only Merging product utilizing ZMAN.

 

The board has been out for many years now.  Back when it was introduced, some were claiming that with this module Ravenna/AES67 was going to quickly achieve hegemony in the Ethernet-input-equipped DAC market, but aside from maybe 3-5 pro-sound processors and cards, 3rd-party ZMAN usage has not happened much at all.  Oh well. 

Merging Anubis and Neumann MT48 also use ZMAN. Merging NADAC has been discontinued and replaced by Master Fidelity NADAC - https://www.master-fidelity.com

The HiFi companies I talked to about this said the price for ZMAN was too expensive. 

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Merging Anubis and Neumann MT48 also use ZMAN.

Those two are the exact same home studio processor, just in different colored case.  It's a neat product though.

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Merging NADAC has been discontinued and replaced by Master Fidelity NADAC - https://www.master-fidelity.com

Interesting. So Merging is divesting of their home audio line. And NADAC went from $10K now to $25K. Wow.  

By the way, the spec page for the NADAC D on the Master Fidelity site shows the optional Ravenna input module as "Temporarily Unavailable."

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The HiFi companies I talked to about this said the price for ZMAN was too expensive. 

Well the price list Merging sent me back in October 2017 had the OEM price for 100+ ZMAN modules at $132 each.  

That's certainly more than the $45 for a ConversDigital mConnect CDM4140, but about on par with the very nice StreamUnlimited Stream1955 module.

9 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Interesting. So Merging is divesting of their home audio line. And NADAC went from $10K now to $25K. Wow.  

By the way, the spec page for the NADAC D on the Master Fidelity site shows the optional Ravenna input module as "Temporarily Unavailable."

Yeah, the new company spent $$$$ developing its own pure DSD silicon. 
 

I’m told the Ravenna module is coming. But, I was also supposed to have the new DAC before Axpona last year 🤣
 

On 8/22/2024 at 9:35 PM, Audio_phool said:

To get the sound back, I either have to restart the dac or I have to switch to some other audio input (either of Co-axial/Optical/AES) and then switch back to the server. After doing this I am able to get the sound back which is quite strange. I am not able to pin down on the issue as I have tried the recommended Ethernet adapter settings and still the issue shows up randomly.

Sounds easy enough to fix.

If you can ssh into AudioLinux, so some research on fixing overruns in Linux. Lots of info on the web.

Good luck

Oz.

12 hours ago, Ozeki said:

Sounds easy enough to fix.

 

If you can ssh into AudioLinux, so some research on fixing overruns in Linux. Lots of info on the web.

 

Good luck

Oz.

@Ozeki thanks, I will search for it online, else I will ask ChatGPT.

Regards,

Audio_phool

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

Well the price list Merging sent me back in October 2017 had the OEM price for 100+ ZMAN modules at $132 each.  

That's certainly more than the $45 for a ConversDigital mConnect CDM4140, but about on par with the very nice StreamUnlimited Stream1955 module.

Do you have any idea how much the horus board would cost, if i decide to change it (in case nothing works and i am left with no other option but to change the network board?

Regards,

Audio_phool

6 hours ago, Audio_phool said:

Do you have any idea how much the horus board would cost, if i decide to change it (in case nothing works and i am left with no other option but to change the network board?

I have no idea.  That big old Merging network board might have been sold as an option at one time, or it might only be available as a spare part.  Either way, directly from Merging as a service item. I’d take a wild guess that they would quote some where between $1,100 to $1,600 for one.

21 hours ago, Superdad said:

Well the price list Merging sent me back in October 2017 had the OEM price for 100+ ZMAN modules at $132 each.  

That's certainly more than the $45 for a ConversDigital mConnect CDM4140, but about on par with the very nice StreamUnlimited Stream1955 module.

There are some other RAVENNA implementations these days, like in RME Digiface Ravenna which is a bit over 2000 EUR for the whole device. But it is essentially a pretty simple DDC.

Cheapest DSD256 capable hardware module for running NAA is 29 EUR per piece (up from 1 piece). Recommended SoM for running full HQPlayer Embedded has been around 300 EUR, but it of course does much more than just transporting audio from A to B.

On 8/22/2024 at 8:35 PM, Audio_phool said:

Any help in identifying the cause of this issue is welcome, especially those who have experience with Ravenna drivers or Merging products especially in Linux environment.

Try using web browser to access your Audio Linux's ip_address:9090 page. Please screen capture and post these tabs and info (technically speaking, you don't need Aneman to manage your Ravenna/AES67 connections):

1. PTP tab:

2. Session sources tab:

Also access your NADAC's ip_address:9090 page, screen capture and post:

3. PTP tab:

4. Sink tab:

Those tabs would help identifying connection issues.