Direct Attach Cable Thread

Superdad · June 25

43 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Quick question: these cables are about three times as much as the generics available on Amazon, one of which I bought and am appreciating. Is it the dielectric that accounts for the price difference?

You mean the difference between $11 and $39?

The dielectric--and moreover the pair bonding method--seems superior, but at all these low prices I expect that distribution channels more than true materials cost are what account for the difference in price.

And I make no claims about the Skewclear wires being audibly better. Have never tried them.

R1200CL · June 25

22 minutes ago, Superdad said:

the pair bonding method

Same technology Belden uses in Ethernet cables. And we before found out was the best sounding technology when we played with making John’s faraday cage theory into some modified products.

Maybe we will start using JSGG on AOS’s 😂

I assume these cables are harder to roll yourself.

Mike Rubin · June 25

35 minutes ago, Superdad said:

You mean the difference between $11 and $39?

The dielectric--and moreover the pair bonding method--seems superior, but at all these low prices I expect that distribution channels more than true materials cost are what account for the difference in price.

And I make no claims about the Skewclear wires being audibly better. Have never tried them.

Thank you. That would have been my guess in this price range, but I thought you might have been able to read the data sheet more closely than I.

charlesphoto · June 26

Or just buy one for $8 off eBay like I just did. (that's an Amphenon .5m Lots more available) Plenty of used and new at other lengths available as well. Search for 'Amphenon direct' My motto has always been never pay full price if you really don't have to.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394073774173?epid=1347750087&itmmeta=01J19A1B0HRZ9EWVYG1VWJVDHM&hash=item5bc0a0985d:g:fXIAAOSwXKdd6wEh&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4E1X04N1ZoHtk9BVQkxfN2nvEi707UP9z%2BlwtFnNo7mnM27r6zWj%2Bz8NixUqVeKc7f%2FPNpRK042ZDBNpAkISDSbfM2sGCCq39%2BtX1F1f55qV8tvU60%2Fpk1iootGe6cpr7zc43RkF27NbC7lNM51HD1BbaCDOu40IZ%2BS3N7ZR0LQ5s5BNRwiBTQ8bLmKQtRsmz4YihoY0CQTUDUEZPLjAhC91WH1spfyxjd7JCOTompwghXert6lyNZLC%2BeJwJlVuHAgJiAwBt0B2sR1rWJFdR%2BQ2JhrWABVqTyRsWu5unI%2Bk|tkp%3ABk9SR7SwhaqKZA

Assisi · June 26

I had forgotten about this thread and posted the following in another thread.

"Whilst I am interested in the Melco DAC cable I mentioned above, I want to try one before I decide to purchase one. Up till now I have preferred a Cisco genuine AOC over a couple of low End DAC Cisco compatibles that I tried. Today I received a Cisco genuine 2 Mt DAC. Interesting outcome compared to the AOC. Early days. It is a maybe. I will advise after a few days of use and settling.

I chose the 2mt as that is the length of the Melco. Whether the length is a benefit I have no idea. I am told that the maximum length for the Cisco is 5mt. Disappointing as I also want 15mt. I assume that the short length is because of the passive aspect.

Since the post above, I have listened for a couple of hours now. Very nice. The high and mids are improved compared to the AOC.

I like it.

John

MartinT · June 26

My comparisons so far reveal that DACs do most certainly sound different. In my setup, a DAC is clearly superior even to the best optical cable, the Cisco SFP-10G-AOC, between my EtherREGEN and Signature Rendu Deluxe. The best sounding DAC I have tried is the inexpensive gnodal available used on eBay. I have also tried the FS and a no-name cable.

The gnodal has an incredibly well developed and sweet treble end with filigree detail. Midrange is communicative, fluid and works superbly with female voice. Bass is very potent with extended and tight bass going down to seemingly subterranean levels. This is a step improvement over the Cisco, and a substantial upgrade at very low cost.

The Melco is outrageously priced and I would want to hear one in my system before even giving it consideration. I may spend large sums on Coherent and Tubulus cables but I can see exactly where the money is going.

FIndingit · June 26

4 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Or just buy one for $8 off eBay like I just did. (that's an Amphenon .5m Lots more available) Plenty of used and new at other lengths available as well. Search for 'Amphenon direct' My motto has always been never pay full price if you really don't have to.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394073774173?epid=1347750087&itmmeta=01J19A1B0HRZ9EWVYG1VWJVDHM&hash=item5bc0a0985d:g:fXIAAOSwXKdd6wEh&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4E1X04N1ZoHtk9BVQkxfN2nvEi707UP9z%2BlwtFnNo7mnM27r6zWj%2Bz8NixUqVeKc7f%2FPNpRK042ZDBNpAkISDSbfM2sGCCq39%2BtX1F1f55qV8tvU60%2Fpk1iootGe6cpr7zc43RkF27NbC7lNM51HD1BbaCDOu40IZ%2BS3N7ZR0LQ5s5BNRwiBTQ8bLmKQtRsmz4YihoY0CQTUDUEZPLjAhC91WH1spfyxjd7JCOTompwghXert6lyNZLC%2BeJwJlVuHAgJiAwBt0B2sR1rWJFdR%2BQ2JhrWABVqTyRsWu5unI%2Bk|tkp%3ABk9SR7SwhaqKZA

Reality check: Shipping to my EU $35, vat $10, total $53.

R1200CL · June 26

35 minutes ago, FIndingit said:

Reality check: Shipping to my EU $35, vat $10, total $53.

Free shipping and no Vat or extra fees if you use the link Alex provided. Same I used. Same price.

charlesphoto · June 26

5 hours ago, FIndingit said:

Reality check: Shipping to my EU $35, vat $10, total $53.

That part I can't help you with. Count your blessings in other ways living where you do. 😁

TRHH · June 26

Please note that Amphenol Cables on Demand are not compatible with Cisco switches. Just in case you have a Cisco switch.

Torben

SQFIRST · June 26

@Assisi which are the two devices that you connected with the dac?

From personal curiosity noting that it maybe helpful for all if we can clarify both devices and the power treatment in the dac connection to understand the use case. I think some are using the ER SFP to a streamer device but there maybe other user experiences already reported and coming up.

audiobomber · June 26

10 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

@Assisi which are the two devices that you connected with the dac?

From personal curiosity noting that it maybe helpful for all if we can clarify both devices and the power treatment in the dac connection to understand the use case. I think some are using the ER SFP to a streamer device but there maybe other user experiences already reported and coming up.

Thank you, I agree. Compatibility is a major concern with a DAC, just as much as it is with SFPs.

André Gosselin · June 26

12 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

Thank you, I agree. Compatibility is a major concern with a DAC, just as much as it is with SFPs.

I am having very good results with a 10Gtek 10G SFP+ DAC connecting an EtherRegen to a Sonore Signature de Luxe. Great sound.

Superdad · June 26

I wish to be clear to everyone that UpTone's recommendation to try a Direct Attach Cable (either with first generation EtherREGEN "turned around" B>A and using only SFP connection on 'A' side, or with 'B' side SFP cage of EtherREGEN Gen2 when it comes out) is rather specific to our highly isolated and reclocked domains. [I previously posted a detailed technical explanation of this when first mentioning DAC cables.]

And most of all, the suggestion is exclusive to use of endpoints with SFP cage inputs. In other words, I would (and did) advise against use of a DAC cable between say a cheap FMC and the EtherREGEN's 'A' port--that's a place where the extra isolation (from leakage currents, etc.) of optical will be of benefit.

Results with use of Direct Attach Cables with other setups, including switches--even if fancy--where the other Ethernet ports are in the same power/data/clock domain may not prove to be better than fiber-optic SFP transceivers and fiber cable.

That said, we are quite pleased that folks are experimenting and reporting good things! FUN!

SQFIRST · June 26

Sharing my understanding for the situation where using a direct attach cable can be possibly beneficial. I find it easier to draw a picture for clarity. Will be interested to hear how this differs from others understanding and any new clarifications emerging.

MartinT · June 26

Your second diagram is how I am configured.

SQFIRST · June 26

Great, thanks @MartinT

Glad to hear we are aligned and you have actual usage experience to confirm the uptick. I am close to trying this out myself but it will need a teardown of part of my current setup so am trying to be certain.

Assisi · June 27

9 hours ago, SQFIRST said:

@Assisi which are the two devices that you connected with the dac?

From personal curiosity noting that it maybe helpful for all if we can clarify both devices and the power treatment in the dac connection to understand the use case. I think some are using the ER SFP to a streamer device but there maybe other user experiences already reported and coming up.

Good question. With the audio network setup I have several switches. The audio network starts with a Ubquiti Router that is intended to isolate other house network activities from the audio network.

The DAC cable connects a SOtM sNH-10G +sCLK_EX, to a Melco S100. The SoTM is connected to the Ubquiti Router by a 15mt AOC. The Melco is connected with a RJ45 to a Waversa Router that is just acting as a switch. After the Waversa there are another four separate switches all connected with RJ45. The four are a Waversa Core, 2 X Nordost Qnets and a Waversa Hub3. Finally, there is a Waversa EXT Filter connected to a WEISS Man 301R.

Now the SoTM and the Melco are both powered by the same LPS. Probably not ideal. As funds permit, I intend to purchase another LPS so that the two switches are separately powered.

A bit complicated I know. I find that more than one switch is better than just one. I know people who have more switches than I do. I do not have a an EtherRegen

John

SQFIRST · June 27

Thanks @Assisi and didn't mean to make you work by having to explain your rather complex network. All good as we are united in our crazy audiophile disease. I feel sympathetic towards your challenge in trying to discern sound changes!

The sharing of (clean) power between the two devices being attached by the d-a-c is actually in line with things from what I can tell.

Assisi · June 27

2 hours ago, SQFIRST said:

I feel sympathetic towards your challenge in trying to discern sound changes!

It is not easy to discern as I avoid AB comparisons. Changing cables or components can take days for everything to settle down and become “Connected Again”. I listen to a playlist of approx. 60 tracks that I am very familiar with. Overtime I can discern slight changes with the playback. Maybe I fool myself. I am happy though with what I do.

I have reached a level of with my setup whereby it is not easy to detect a subtle change, difference or benefit in the result with a new addition. It takes time to work it out. It is about how natural or real the music sounds. Is it more so? With some tracks I paint or form a picture in my brain of the position of the individual notes in the sound stage. If I think that the picture has more clarity or precise positioning of the notes, I think that there is a benefit

John

TRHH · June 27

Unfortunately, the cables from Amphenol Cables on Demand are not compatible with switches from HP, Cisco and Force10

Any suggestions for an "Bonded-Pair Technology" DAC cable?

Torben

Mike Rubin · June 27

On 6/25/2024 at 8:50 PM, charlesphoto said:

Or just buy one for $8 off eBay like I just did. (that's an Amphenon .5m Lots more available) Plenty of used and new at other lengths available as well. Search for 'Amphenon direct' My motto has always been never pay full price if you really don't have to.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394073774173?epid=1347750087&itmmeta=01J19A1B0HRZ9EWVYG1VWJVDHM&hash=item5bc0a0985d:g:fXIAAOSwXKdd6wEh&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4E1X04N1ZoHtk9BVQkxfN2nvEi707UP9z%2BlwtFnNo7mnM27r6zWj%2Bz8NixUqVeKc7f%2FPNpRK042ZDBNpAkISDSbfM2sGCCq39%2BtX1F1f55qV8tvU60%2Fpk1iootGe6cpr7zc43RkF27NbC7lNM51HD1BbaCDOu40IZ%2BS3N7ZR0LQ5s5BNRwiBTQ8bLmKQtRsmz4YihoY0CQTUDUEZPLjAhC91WH1spfyxjd7JCOTompwghXert6lyNZLC%2BeJwJlVuHAgJiAwBt0B2sR1rWJFdR%2BQ2JhrWABVqTyRsWu5unI%2Bk|tkp%3ABk9SR7SwhaqKZA

This has a different part number than the SF-SFPP2EPASS that @Superdadmentioned in his post, which is what Mouser sells. I have no idea what the difference is between the two part numbers and Googling has failed to educate me, but I can confirm this is an honest seven bucks' worth of cable in my application. I have it between an Optical Module Deluxe and the Signature Rendu SE rather than between the cheap FMC and EtherRegen that I have in my desktop system, as @Superdad advised against that a few times on his posts. I can't comment on the sound, as I just installed it and I wasn't yet all that familiar with the $11 cable I got from Amazon last week, but I don't hate the way my system sounds and think both of the passive DAC's sound different from the Finisar SFP's I was using before. Not sure that I will stay with these over the long haul, but I definitely think I could live with them.

Superdad · June 27

On 6/25/2024 at 8:50 PM, charlesphoto said:

Or just buy one for $8 off eBay like I just did. (that's an Amphenon .5m Lots more available) Plenty of used and new at other lengths available as well. Search for 'Amphenon direct' My motto has always been never pay full price if you really don't have to.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394073774173?epid=1347750087&itmmeta=01J19A1B0HRZ9EWVYG1VWJVDHM&hash=item5bc0a0985d:g:fXIAAOSwXKdd6wEh&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4E1X04N1ZoHtk9BVQkxfN2nvEi707UP9z%2BlwtFnNo7mnM27r6zWj%2Bz8NixUqVeKc7f%2FPNpRK042ZDBNpAkISDSbfM2sGCCq39%2BtX1F1f55qV8tvU60%2Fpk1iootGe6cpr7zc43RkF27NbC7lNM51HD1BbaCDOu40IZ%2BS3N7ZR0LQ5s5BNRwiBTQ8bLmKQtRsmz4YihoY0CQTUDUEZPLjAhC91WH1spfyxjd7JCOTompwghXert6lyNZLC%2BeJwJlVuHAgJiAwBt0B2sR1rWJFdR%2BQ2JhrWABVqTyRsWu5unI%2Bk|tkp%3ABk9SR7SwhaqKZA

Hi Charles:

@Mike Rubin is correct, the $8 Amphenol 571540001 cable you linked to is not made with the ClearSkew wire or polyolefin insulation. Here is the data sheet for the Amphenol 571540001.

https://cdn.amphenol-cs.com/media/wysiwyg/files/documentation/datasheet/cableassemblies/hsio_ca_sfp_plus.pdf

charlesphoto · June 27

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi Charles:

@Mike Rubin is correct, the $8 Amphenol 571540001 cable you linked to is not made with the ClearSkew wire or polyolefin insulation. Here is the data sheet for the Amphenol 571540001.

https://cdn.amphenol-cs.com/media/wysiwyg/files/documentation/datasheet/cableassemblies/hsio_ca_sfp_plus.pdf

Ah, no worries, figured it's all a bit of gamble and in the scheme of cable rolling these things are cheap. As it is, it will be interesting to see if I hear any difference between the $8 three meter OEM Cisco I've got playing (and enjoying now). Maybe just the much shorter length will come into play.

SQFIRST · June 28

Hey everyone - it's giving back to the community time :) and I am sharing my recent brief testing experience with direct attach cables.

Source device: EtherRegen operating in B>A configuration
Audio Endpoint: Lumin X1 upnp streamer-dac with SFP input

The experiment was to test and compare the folowing:
-impact of not using optical isolation in the setup
-impact of using direct attach cable
-noting the characteristic of the change with regards to audio

DACs tested (all 30 AWG):
10GTek 1g SFP
10GTek 10g SFP+
10GTek 25g SFP28
HiFiber 10g SFP+

Impact of removing use of optical:
No negative impact as careful power isolation between components was maintained. Network isolation was achieved by a combination of upstream network treatments which include use of 10G protocol as well as wifi.

Impact of using direct attach cable:
No negative impact from introducing the copper connection of the dac.

Changes noted (with some A/B thrown in):

(Do keep in mind that I don't belong to any accredited audiophile school so am just a wannabe and my notes are to be taken as such)

-Optical setup had some sharp notes occasionally that would remind me that I am listening to digital. Some instruments would seem to be loosely placed in the soundstage. This is not overly obvious but would come up now and then. Having spent a long time rolling transceivers I have settled on two that I like: Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL and Startech MASFP1GBLX10. Both deliver similar quality for me.

-DAC sounds smoother in those same sharp moments in comparison. Soundstage is improved being more distinct. Bass is immediately noticeable as being more defined and tight. There is an enjoyable quality of the change to Bass when using DAC. Listening to my X1, the spaciousness and imaging which I really enjoy about it, seemed to be enhanced with the DAC connection.

Notes about the DACs:
-They were clearly directional to me. Flipping them around revealed preference of one way.
-10GTek was better sounding than HiFiber with higher resolution for me
-individual differences between the various speed dacs were very nuanced and not huge
-1g had a midrange push
-25g sounded slightly dark
-10g sounded most 'correct' and one that I enjoyed listening to most

In summary, based on my experience I think that with the right equipment (note my use case is at final endpoint), power treatment and network; the use of a direct attach cable can provide an enhancement over transceivers and fiber. This does not mean I will be replacing my other optical connections with dacs as that won't make sense. There is a high chance you will not enjoy this experiment if you are not reading into the details on this thread. For me this adds that last mile enhancement that pushes the quality just a tad further and we all know what that is like :)

Further listening is needed to understand details as things settle in but for now it is staying!

Direct Attach Cable Thread

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