Jump to content
  • The Computer Audiophile
    The Computer Audiophile

    Upgrades To My Immersive Audio System, Plus One Deep Question

     

     

        

        Audio: Listen to this article.

     

     

     

    As we close out 2023 and gear up for 2024, I’m planning some upgrades to my immersive audio system. These upgrades aren’t needed, but not much in this wonderful hobby of ours is. Most of us could live with an AM radio playing our favorite music if we were limited strictly to needs, rather than wants. I’m completely satisfied with my current system and could likely enjoy it for decades without needing an upgrade. Fortunately, I’m in a position to take another step toward sonic bliss, with some newly announced upgrades that have been on my mind for about a year, even though I was unaware the upgrades were under development. It’s one of those situations where the audio stars aligned. 


    alida-csc-d-tabs copy.jpgThe Wilson Audio Alida was introduced in August of 2014 (link). I installed eight Alidas in the summer of 2022, knowing very well that the loudspeaker’s drivers and cabinet materials had been surpassed by newer Wilson Audio designs. This fact didn’t bother me in the least because I was getting the best speaker available to suit my needs. I certainly thought about how nice it would be if the Alida had the same tweeter and similar damping and vibration control X / V materials as my Alexia V, but an Alida with these enhancements was a unicorn at the time. 

     

    As I got deeper into the world of immersive audio and talked to more people taking the plunge, I frequently heard from those who’d tried a “hodgepodge” of loudspeakers to fill out their immersive systems. This often meant different brands with different tweeters. Not the end of the world, as different tweeters are better than no tweeters, but certainly less than ideal. Everyone I know who upgraded their immersive channels to speakers with matching or similar tweeters, was thrilled with the sound and their decision to upgrade. If anything, tweeters seem to be the single most important driver for immersive system matching. 

     

    This left me wondering about my Alidas and their nearly ten year old tweeter design. I didn’t have FOMO and didn’t hear anything that made me think I was missing out on anything sonically. I was more curious and hopeful for a bright future for the Alida. Then I got the call from Wilson Audio that a new Alida design was complete, and would be announced very soon. The new Alida CSC would feature the exact same tweeter as my Alexia V (Alexx V and Sasha V as well). The stars were aligning. 

     

    In addition to the CSC tweeter, the new Alida CSC design tackled something that I believe is even more critical with surface mounted loudspeakers than floor standing speakers, damping and vibration control. I have eight Alidas screwed solidly into the studs and tightly against the walls / ceiling of my listening room. Vibrations to and from the speakers are a real concern. My Alexia Vs each stand on four Wilson Audio Acoustic Diodes. The surface contact area between the diodes and my floor is only as large as the point of the spikes. The contact area between the Alidas and my walls and studs is massive compared to the Alexia Vs with Diodes. 

     

    It should come as no surprise that I was thrilled to learn the new Alida CSC loudspeakers feature both X-Material and V-Material to address vibration control. X and V Materials are proprietary to Wilson Audio and are featured heavily throughout its product range, including the flagship Chronosonic XVX. This a big deal.

     

    I’ve ordered eight new Alida CSC loudspeakers to replace my existing original Alidas. I’m getting the same WilsonGloss Ivory color, at least I think. I’ve been eyeing up the premium Glacier Frost Pearl color and imagining how great it would look on my walls. My Alexia Vs are Silver Ice Pearl, so I know the quality of the Pearl finishes is second to none. 

     

     

    Center Yourself

     

    mezzo-csc.pngSimilar to the Alida, the Wilson Audio WATCH Center channel I installed in 2022 was no spring chicken. The design originated in 2011 and still delivers fantastic sound to this day. I had no worries about the design being “older” but I’d always wondered how much better the Wilson Audio Mezzo center channel would sound in my system. I have to be honest, I selected the WATCH Center channel initially because it’s what I could afford. The Mezzo was out of my price range at the time, partially because of the fact that I purchased ten loudspeakers at once! If I was starting over, I’d start with the WATCH Center again. It’s a great center channel loudspeaker. 

     

    Now that Wilson has announced the new Mezzo CSC center channel, featuring an adjustable CSC tweeter, X and S Material, newly designed AudioCapX-WA copper capacitors, and the same 7” Alnico QuadraMag midrange as the Chronosonic XVX, it’s time to part ways with my WATCH Center and upgrade to the Mezzo CSC. I have the WilsonGloss Silver Ice Pearl color with the matching hourglass stand on order. 

     

    Speaking of center channels and immersive audio, this is a good time to note how different the use of said channel is for music playback versus movies. All movies demand a great center channel. Period. Without it, dialog is unintelligible. Immersive music is a completely different animal. 

     

    There are no rules for creating an immersive music mix. Engineers and artists do whatever suits the needs of the music. Some music features almost nothing in the center channel. Engineers mixing these releases often use a phantom center, exactly like they did with a stereo mix. It sounds like it’s coming from the center channel, but it isn’t. 

     

    On the other hand, some engineers use the center channel as an absolutely critical piece of a mix. For example, the new Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio album A Shade of Blue features the piano on the left, drums on the right, and stand up bass smack in the center channel. Nothing has made me want a new center channel more than this album, which by the way gets my vote for album of the year in 2023. Sure, I can and do offload bass to the Lōkē subwoofer, but I’d like to play as much of that impeccably recorded bass in the center channel, where the bassist actually stood during the performance. The Mezzo CSC will enable me to get the most out of not only this recording, but any recording. 

     

    The Mezzo CSC is a bit larger and heavier than the WATCH Center currently in my system. I’ve laid down some masking tape to put the speaker’s footprint in the space where it will be placed, and it’ll fit perfectly. The doors behind the speaker will still have plenty of room to open and close, and I’ll still have all the room I need to walk between the center and other front speakers. 

     

    Dimensionally the Mezzo CSC isn’t THAT much larger than the WATCH Center, but it’s much heavier. I carried the roughly 50 lbs WATCH Center up the stairs myself. I will not be carrying the 200 lbs Mezzo CSC up the stairs on my own, or even with a partner. I’ll call my guys over at Manny’s Piano Movers, who’ve moved all my heavy speakers over the years. These guys are the best.

     


    A Deep Question: One Sub or Two?

     

    submerge-tabs.jpgNow we get to the one deep question that keeps me up at night. I currently have a single Wilson Audio Lōkē subwoofer. After listening to some immersive tracks, it’s clear to me that I could use a second subwoofer on the opposite side of my room. My plan was to add the second sub at some point in 2024. 

     

    The last Wilson Audio product introduction of 2023 threw a wrench into my dual subwoofer plan. Wilson introduced the Submerge powered subwoofer. This sub is perfect for me because it’s self powered and goes down to 5 Hz with 1600 watts of power. I like the other Wilson subs I’ve heard over the years, but a passive sub is a bridge too far for me. When I saw the Submerge, my eyes got the size of dinner plates. 

     

    My first world problem revolves around the size of the Submerge. It won’t fit in the same position as my Lōkē because of its height. I’d have to trim another foot off my live edge wood desk, and that’s not going to happen. I still need a space to get some work done. I could fit the Submerge on the opposite side of the room as the Lōkē and have room to spare. But, I don’t think a dual sub setup with one Submerge and one Lōkē is ideal, though I could be wrong. It just doesn’t feel right. 

     

    My deep question is what is better for my system, two Lōkēs or one Submerge? My answer depends on the day of the week. Right now I’m leaning toward a single Submerge, in WilsonGloss Glacier Frost Pearl. 

     


    Wrap Up

     

    The end of 2023 is in sight, Santa is warming up his sleigh, and the amateurs are planning a big night out on the 31st. I’m looking forward to spending time with my family over the next week, and I’m looking forward to the aforementioned system upgrades in early 2024. Life is good when we have things to look forward to, and I feel very blessed in this area. Family and music, it doesn’t get much better. 


     

     

     




    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    not that it matters to the uber wealthy, but with a Submerge that's maybe $140K US retail for the new speakers ?

     

    and you know the real answer to your dilemma is a pair of Submerge SW 🙂

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Wow... Super excited for @The Computer Audiophile. Getting perfectly coherent surround speakers definitely improves the sound based on my experience with various friends and dealers. That said, I don't know what happens when you are already running really well-designed convolution filters although I can tell you my old speakers don't sound like my current ones with convolution filters.

     

    I wonder if @mitchco might have some suggestions in terms of optimal placement for two Submerge at your place. Although they might not be the most aesthetically pleasing place for you, but I'm sure you'll get a sonically satisfying experience.

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    16 minutes ago, ecwl said:

    Wow... Super excited for @The Computer Audiophile. Getting perfectly coherent surround speakers definitely improves the sound based on my experience with various friends and dealers. That said, I don't know what happens when you are already running really well-designed convolution filters although I can tell you my old speakers don't sound like my current ones with convolution filters.

     

    I wonder if @mitchco might have some suggestions in terms of optimal placement for two Submerge at your place. Although they might not be the most aesthetically pleasing place for you, but I'm sure you'll get a sonically satisfying experience.

    I’ll be working with Mitch on the system for sure. 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I vote 1 Submerge.  Based on the dimensions, I'm pretty sure it will move more air than 1 Loke; though maybe one of our engineering friends can opine here.  Plus, it's reaching lower, isn't it?  The Loke is designed for Wilson's more modest speakers, you need (haha) the big boy 

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    48 minutes ago, PeterG said:

    I vote 1 Submerge.  Based on the dimensions, I'm pretty sure it will move more air than 1 Loke; though maybe one of our engineering friends can opine here.  Plus, it's reaching lower, isn't it?  The Loke is designed for Wilson's more modest speakers, you need (haha) the big boy 

    I’m leaning that way, but my wallet is leaning the other direction 🙂

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

    I vote for 2 (or more) subs.  Moving air is easily accomplished with bigger and/or more subs.  However, in the two quite different rooms and systems I have experimented with, the immediate advantage of a 2nd or 3rd sub (without any EQ/DSP) was a flattening of the in-room LF performance.  The more, the better.

     

    Tangentially, initial work with DiracLive-ART capitalizes on that phenomenon by taking advantage of the bass contributions of all the in-room speakers without using bass management.  If your main speakers have extended bass abilities (and yours do), they both contribute to and benefit from being part of the multiple bass source effort.

     

    On the other hand, the task is simplified because this is a system optimized for a single seat. The flattening of the response only has to occur at a single spot. 

     

    I would think that a single Submerge placed in the ideal spot with proper DSP will be hard to improve upon. The obvious limitation is "ideal spot." If that turns out to be somewhere that just can't work, like where one of the main L-R speakers is or on top of your desk,  then additional subs in less than ideal spots may be better. 

     

    I vote for at least 3 just in case

     

     

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    I’m leaning that way, but my wallet is leaning the other direction 🙂

     

    True that.  I have been procrastinating on demoing a Loke or two to go with my TuneTots, against my current B&W DB3D.  Some of the delay is that I concede the Loke's shortcomings on paper to the various Wilson critics who have pointed them out (without actually hearing it).  When I saw your post on Submerge, I thought "Perfect!  $15 or 20K will be an awful lot on a sub for TuneTots, but I can at least try".  Then I saw the price...oops

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 minutes ago, PeterG said:

    but I can at least try".  Then I saw the price...oops

     

    which brings up some things to seriously consider....

    • what are the alternatives when you are considering $30,000 for a subwoofer? 
    • what does Wilson offer that you can't get for much less (besides matching paint and bragging rights) ?

     

     

    Home theater has driven the market for subs so there are a tremendous number of options. You can successfully argue (at least convince yourself)  that Wilson offers something unique in full range and  surround speakers. You can even convince yourself that there is value for your dollar, but you will be hard pressed to make a convincing argument that it takes $30,000 to do what the Submerge does.

     

    this is not one of the options for < $30K

    image.png.563eb41292333bda1dd3b231e81f26b8.png

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    19 hours ago, bbosler said:

     

    ...

     

    I vote for at least 3 just in case

     

    When I first started hearing about Atmos...I thought the "4" in 7.1.4 was 4 subs... you know...take care of all the bombs exploding and directional effects from car chases of movies.

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I still think a subwoofer when limited to the very lowest frequencies is omnidirectional, so the spatial position of low instruments should rely on higher parts of their spectrum (plucking or finger noise) that should be output by other speakers in the array. This is the case for my 15 inch Velodyne sub in my main system, and even more so for my Sonos Sub Mini in my secondary Atmos system. With good Atmos mixes, I do get a definite position for a double bass for instance, while having a good enough fundamental not coming from a definite position.

     

    By the way, here is a real test for a sub: 

     

     https://music.apple.com/us/album/in-the-bleak-midwinter-christmas-carols-from-kings/1585030290

     

    On track 18 there is an organ improvisation with a low D at 18Hz that is quite spectacular because of the 32 feet organ stop used. This should really sound like it is coming from everywhere at once, like in a cathedral. This is too low for the Sonos Sub Mini but the Velodyne does move a lot of air.

     

    It's also very nice Christmas music...

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Chris,  The room is quite magnificent, and the move to a more timbre-matched set of drivers is a big deal.  I have a functioning 7.x.4 setup (and installed but not activated top middles to get me to 7.x.6) whose bed channels are made up of all Aerials (20Ts as mains, LR5s as center and surrounds) with identical drivers.....and when I decided to not only move my ceiling-based heights/tops from the classic Atmos 45/135 to a more Auro-3D-style 30/150 (hence the "need" for something top middle maybe) I switched out my wonderful but not quite cutting it SVS Prime Elevations up top and invested in two pair of the larger and driver-identical-to-my-bed Aerial 5Ts.   Big improvement, just in the driver compliment, let alone then the move to 30/150.  And once you do the prerequisite speaker pair "spatial renditioning" (getting delays perfect so imaging appears midway between speaker pairs) the results of all the drivers in synch is a wonderful aural thing.  :)

     

    I mentioned 7.x.4 cuz I don't really know how to signify my subwoofer setup.  I have 3 right now, with one being a dedicated LFE channel and the other two bass managing all the bed channels.  I am thinking of going multiple LFEs but not sure yet. 

     

    Anyway, more is better.  :)

     

    Happy Holidays!

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    26 minutes ago, ted_b said:

    Chris,  The room is quite magnificent, and the move to a more timbre-matched set of drivers is a big deal.  I have a functioning 7.x.4 setup (and installed but not activated top middles to get me to 7.x.6) whose bed channels are made up of all Aerials (20Ts as mains, LR5s as center and surrounds) with identical drivers.....and when I decided to not only move my ceiling-based heights/tops from the classic Atmos 45/135 to a more Auro-3D-style 30/150 (hence the "need" for something top middle maybe) I switched out my wonderful but not quite cutting it SVS Prime Elevations up top and invested in two pair of the larger and driver-identical-to-my-bed Aerial 5Ts.   Big improvement, just in the driver compliment, let alone then the move to 30/150.  And once you do the prerequisite speaker pair "spatial renditioning" (getting delays perfect so imaging appears midway between speaker pairs) the results of all the drivers in synch is a wonderful aural thing.  :)

     

    I mentioned 7.x.4 cuz I don't really know how to signify my subwoofer setup.  I have 3 right now, with one being a dedicated LFE channel and the other two bass managing all the bed channels.  I am thinking of going multiple LFEs but not sure yet. 

     

    Anyway, more is better.  :)

     

    Happy Holidays!

    Hi Ted, your are definitely one of the people who I thought about when considering the upgrade. I remember you telling me the benefits of matching drivers. 
     

    Hope you can spend a lot of time listening this holiday season :~)

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I have been very happy with the balanced sub in my main system. It sits front and center with two drivers out the sides.  i have a smallish space I am trying to fill.

     

     

    Share this comment


    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now




×
×
  • Create New...