The thing with audiophile networking equipment... where are the proofs?

On 10/25/2022 at 4:31 PM, Archimago said:

An SS amp "measuring better" refers to an empirically derived judgment based on things like distortion, or lower noise compared to a ideal. Lower distortion, lower noise, generally being more ideal and therefore "better" - higher fidelity if you will.

I do try to go for stuff that measures well, when relevant measurements are available.  There's a frustrating lack of really top-level scientific information correlating much of this to what we can actually perceive. Not surprising - labs with fMRI and the most sensitive equipment test rigs (if such a lab even exists) trying for grant money aren't inclined to say "Let's propose an experiment involving consumer audio equipment, I bet it'll get funded!"  But such measurements along with other information like repair data can at the very least indicate something about quality of design and execution.

Where measurements aren't available or where they don't conclusively favor one course or other, I suppose we're into the realm of risk tolerance and disposable income.  How much are you willing to drop on whatever you think sounds good (assuming the claims for the item lie somewhere within the bounds of physical reality)?

16 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I do try to go for stuff that measures well, when relevant measurements are available.  There's a frustrating lack of really top-level scientific information correlating much of this to what we can actually perceive. Not surprising - labs with fMRI and the most sensitive equipment test rigs (if such a lab even exists) trying for grant money aren't inclined to say "Let's propose an experiment involving consumer audio equipment, I bet it'll get funded!"  But such measurements along with other information like repair data can at the very least indicate something about quality of design and execution.

We are admittedly interested in what can be heard yet networking equipment is far far away from the actual audio circuitry.

Similarly there are only a few ways that networking gear is physically possible to affect the audio circuitry. At some point, and this applies to networking equipment, not amplifiers and certainly not speakers, we can rely on good old fashioned engineering. While there are good old fashioned reasons why different brands of resistors, capacitors, tubes and transistors can indeed alter “SQ” and also are indeed measurably different in their behavior, this is just not the case for networking equipment.

16 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Where measurements aren't available or where they don't conclusively favor one course or other, I suppose we're into the realm of risk tolerance and disposable income.  How much are you willing to drop on whatever you think sounds good (assuming the claims for the item lie somewhere within the bounds of physical reality)?

 

The bounds of physical reality is the salient point. The very and measurably best network switches in terms of vanishingly low jitter and noise are not designed for audio. I will say this for everything including the switch and everything like NAS and servers that sit behind the switch. Everything forward to the switch from endpoint through speakers/headphones is fair game for being the best in terms of audio specific engineering.

36 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The bounds of physical reality is the salient point. The very and measurably best network switches in terms of vanishingly low jitter and noise are not designed for audio. I will say this for everything including the switch and everything like NAS and servers that sit behind the switch. Everything forward to the switch from endpoint through speakers/headphones is fair game for being the best in terms of audio specific engineering.

I do wonder about very practical things like power supply noise getting into the rest of the system, or system grounding/topology creating noise loops. (I had a noise loop once where the network equipment was involved. An isolation transformer helped but didn't totally resolve the problem. What did at the time was feeding the system from a battery powered laptop locally rather than the network. I eventually made other changes that allowed me to run the system from the network without issue.)

Again, as we presumably agree, good measurements in relevant aspects of network performance can generally indicate a level of design and build quality.

37 minutes ago, yamamoto2002 said:

When reviewers test those products, I hope they add test vector to measure acoustic noise characteristics. I'd like to know which one is the best performing (most quiet) high-res capable network equipment. Also I'd like to know the most quiet computer monitor and laptop for home high-res recording.

My network equipment is located in my basement which has poured concrete walls, and so acoustically quite isolated from my audio areas. 

1 hour ago, Jud said:

I do wonder about very practical things like power supply noise getting into the rest of the system, or system grounding/topology creating noise loops.

A friend’s house lost a lot of electrical equipment after a lightning storm, possibly via the cable line in the house. The modem was literally fried.

29 minutes ago, jabbr said:

A friend’s house lost a lot of electrical equipment after a lightning storm, possibly via the cable line in the house. The modem was literally fried.

That part I've got covered.

14 hours ago, Jud said:

 

That part I've got covered.

Yeah I know ;)

Video screens are crazy bad at giving off EMI. My first really bad experience came when I was using a fairly good pro-quality digital recording device that I normally USB powered off my MacBook for recording music events. I was using this as double duty DAC for my headphones… and after installed a new HDMI monitor at my workstation … bzzzzzz … and that led me down the isolation rabbit hole

Empirical evidence is just a crutch. When you implement a purchase into your system and there is a synergy that happens to your delight, that there is no empirical evidence before hand to explain--well--your just happy as a Keebler Elf that just got promoted from fudge packer.🤪Money well spent.

On 10/28/2022 at 6:37 PM, jabbr said:

A friend’s house lost a lot of electrical equipment after a lightning storm, possibly via the cable line in the house. The modem was literally fried.

More than likely, it came through the electrical wires, coming into the house. The reason I say this is only 2 of the cables are jacketed, the other is not.

The cable line is, so there is that.