Article: Attending a Mahler 3rd Recording Session: An Audiophile’s Perspective

Hi @austinpop, I told you this offline, but I will repeat in public. This could be my favorite article we've ever published on CA / AS. It captures a terrific day perfectly and with excellent detail. 

I have to thank you for coming out to Minneapolis, working through the process of setting this up and following through on the details afterward, and writing about it so wonderfuly. This entire experience was so neat and also so eye opening. I think we could both talk about it for several hours and still not cover all the things we saw, how what we saw effects how we listen, etc...

Bravo Rajiv. This is so much better than anything I could've done. 

I agree. Awesome article. I have never experienced that with an orchestra. But have for small jazz and pop recordings. Sitting in the studio fiddling around playing an instrument like a piano and going into the control room listening the mic feed and then the mix is quite the “ear” opener. Well done!

What a unique and fascinating experience!  Well done, Rajiv.

Lots of fun, guys. Excellent article. I always enjoy Orchestra Hall. Wish you had invited me to join you (only 20 minutes away l!), as I’ve never seen a recording session there — or anywhere, for that matter. Thanks for sharing. JCR 

Great experience and great article!  But your comments on the sound coming out of the Sennheiser headphones seems to just be begging for answers to questions I didn't see above: 1) how much of that quality is lost in the mixing process; 2) how much is lost through the recording format/process; and c) where else does the degradation result from the stream you were hearing?  

The article was fascinating Rajiv. Well Done!

"the level of clarity and palpable ambience was almost unbelievable"

When you were listening through the headphones, were you in the sound field of the orchestra, or were you completely isolated?

"a bit closed in and wooly" nicely describes my experience with the HD650, and I would add lacking detail. Given that you normally use higher quality headphones, it's a bit of a shock to hear that you were so delighted with the sound of the recording session. I have to wonder how close the finished product will be to what you heard. Will the final quality be messed with for the masses with ear buds and lower fi gear? 

appreciate the conversational tone mixed with a lot of information in an easily accessible story.  We are there with you.  Nicely done.  

As someone who has read a few autobiographies of sound engineers who have recorded pop/rock music, this article is a wonderful behind-the-scenes view of the process as applied to an orchestral setting.  The complexity of the producer's and engineer's responsibilities is hard to fathom!   I'll remember that when I listen to classical music and get fussy about the sound.  

I can't tell people enough about how this experience adjusted my view of recorded music. I am now 100% certain that nobody other than the producer and recording engineer know how the album is supposed to sound. The best we can do as audiophiles is either try to faithfully reproduce what's on the album, or adjust the sound to our tastes. 

We've all read articles where writers suggest a trumpet was bright, or the viola was a bit thin, etc... Those comments are neither here nor there because that's likely how the producer wanted them to sound. Also, evaluating audio components by listening to recorded music and comparing that to live music is a fools errand. Think you know what a violin sounds like? You don't know what the producer wants the violin to sound like, and which specific violin, in which specific hall?

Anyway, this experience has really made me just enjoy music and stop thinking about what sounds "right" because nobody has any idea. 

9 hours ago, sdolezalek said:

Great experience and great article!  But your comments on the sound coming out of the Sennheiser headphones seems to just be begging for answers to questions I didn't see above: 1) how much of that quality is lost in the mixing process; 2) how much is lost through the recording format/process; and c) where else does the degradation result from the stream you were hearing?  

I think this is something both of us are very interested to find out. The only way to have any guess, is to wait for the recording to be released. We will also need to talk to those involved about any differences heard and if they are intentional or an unavoidable result of the process.

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I can't tell people enough about how this experience adjusted my view of recorded music. I am now 100% certain that nobody other than the producer and recording engineer know how the album is supposed to sound. The best we can do as audiophiles is either try to faithfully reproduce what's on the album, or adjust the sound to our tastes. 

 

We've all read articles where writers suggest a trumpet was bright, or the viola was a bit thin, etc... Those comments are neither here nor there because that's likely how the producer wanted them to sound. Also, evaluating audio components by listening to recorded music and comparing that to live music is a fools errand. Think you know what a violin sounds like? You don't know what the producer wants the violin to sound like, and which specific violin, in which specific hall?

 

Anyway, this experience has really made me just enjoy music and stop thinking about what sounds "right" because nobody has any idea. 

I always felt his way (the bolded part). What I try to do, to the best of my ability with the equipment I can afford. But nothing too crazy.....

I often use orchestral music when evaluating components and systems. One B/c Iike that kind of music, but really b/c I want to see how successfully a system gives me an illusion of listening to an orchestra in a hall. Mediocre systems can't do it. 

Obviously we can never really recreate that experience with a audio system - especially a 2 channel one. And it varies from recording to recording and also  as a result of the decisions of the producer and engineer about how they want it to sound. 

But this article and my experience make it clear that all we can hope for is  a recreation of whatever experience is on the final recording. There is no "absolute sound". 

If you think your setup is doing a good job - then it is. No reason to get caught up in some artificial idea of how it is supposed to sound. 

4 minutes ago, PYP said:

It would have been cool if logistics had permitted Chris and Rajiv to listen live (that is, calibrate ears in the hall itself with orchestra playing) as well as through the recording setup.  For me, that would be the ultimate audiophile experience.

A couple nights before the recording we did :~)

https://www.minnesotaorchestra.org/tickets/calendar/2223/classical/vaenskae-conducts-mahlers-third/

Such an enjoyable read. This is what it’s all about. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for this recording session. I would not consider classical to be my goto genre, but it is thrilling to read about the attention to detail, the different roles within the team how and what goes into re-recording specific passages. I have so much more appreciated for this genre. Thank you for sharing your experience!

62 microphones?  I remember in the early days of audiophilia, multi-miking is a no-no.   Thus, one of the early myths is put to rest as BIS recordings are generally of very high quality.