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iFi NEO iDSD 2 - A second coming


DuckToller

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IFi Audio announced yesterday an upgraded version of their “balanced” DAC, Pre- and HP-Amp NEO iDSD, called - who will wonder about that – NEO iDSD 2. I tried to have a short preview on the documents but gave up on quick & short and allow myself to show you more details on the available information than I was expecting this morning. The device is announced at 899 Euro/USD/GBP. I need to excuse my typo, initially I wrote 699.

[EDIT] My summary on the NEO iDSD (Version 1) reads like this

" Personally, I’d love to see
- a more potent HPA as we know from the micro iDSD series,
- a fully balanced design including a dual mono DAC chip implementation,
- a filter selection option (which may arrive with an alternative firmware flavor),
- an USB port with iPurifier technology built
- and an analog input.

These are desired features we already are accustomed to by the existing iFi audio portfolio. If they would be available, the NEO iDSD could have been described as the unit you have wished for.
Presenting to their customers a potent adaptive solution to use the 4.4mm balanced output sans paying extra for new can cabling, providing a better USB cabling length and perhaps more functional remote possibility via BT could be considered the icing on that cake."

 

That's a lot and Ifi Audio fought an uphill battle to get better, to be fair, it's quite difficult if you already own the "King of the Hill"

UPHILL!

If you hadn’t been convinced on the first edition of the NEO IDSD because you missed these 8 A’s:

-    - A 10MHz clock via BNC (75 Ohm)

-    - A “single-ended” analog input via unbalanced 3.5mm

      - A better design for the remote control

      - And more intuitive-functional buttons on the device itself

      - A filter selector option - the device now (as seen already with the interim Performance Edition) allows to select between 4 filters of choice

      - A five-times more powerful headphone amp for both – unbalanced and balanced outputs - max. 2.832mW/5.551mW @32 Ohm

      - And 4 different gain settings from -12dB up to +16dB

      - An app on Android and IOS for setting up the device and manage OTA updates.

this device will be right up your alley.

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Even more when you are that kind of Bluetooth enthusiast that was waiting for BT 5.4 and the 2022 introduced APTx Lossless codec in a brand-new DAC/PRE- & HP-AMP.

I can see that some of the critical points I’ve amended with my 2021/22 review of the first gen NEO iDSD had found open ears chez iFi.
And I really like that!

 

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DOWNHILL!

There are some other points which may have not been inside their development budget and I may still feel that I would be good with investing close to the 4 digits’ mark if they  would consider to work on the following points.

1.  Cabling
In my review from 2021/22 I have written about the odd cabling situation when using the device in an upright standing mode, and I am still not convinced having the power cable on the top end of device will prove very comfortable.

The cable situation in regard of the supplied extras is still scarce - no balanced cable and no 4.4mm adapter are supplied with this edition. However, the power supply seems to be upgraded to the iFi power 2, which I assume may have at least 9V / 1.5 A

2. The hardware side

- the collection of Bluetooth codecs is upgraded to the 5.4 standard and  enhanced by the 2022 AptX lossless codec, which - from the data I have seen - seems to be even closer to almost lossless than the LDAC or AptX HD codecs we know. Even this may occur as an important milestone, you will find out only in a couple of month (or years - if you are rational like me with your smartphone renewal) if the performance will suit your ears.

This is a generic problem of early adaptors and in my view not really a first mover advantage I may conclude.

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- I actually would have hoped that iFi would step ahead providing a BT output to wireless cans and pods, but my search of the documentation couldn’t confirm that.

- I could see that adding a HDMI arc option or AES/EBU would bring this device in another league.

- the fully balanced DAC/PRE still seems to hide inside a marketing-fog of “twin mono topology” which may or may not be different from what we know as dual mono design topology.

- They use for example still one single Burr Brown DAC chip which may or may not be a proprietary design for iFi only, because no-one else (including TI/Burr Brown) uses the term “Burr-Brown DAC chip’s four-channel True Native design“ except of this website, which seems to be a grab-site of ancient iFi-Audio web information (according to a search with Brave indicating the “ “search term with -iFi).

- I would have wished for a well-known and anticipated solution like we had with the iFi Micro iDSD BL, sporting a true dual mono design with dual mono DAC, dual Mono analogue stage and dual mono pre-amp as a basis for this balanced design.

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3. The TI Burr Brown DAC chip chart: iDSD

Looking at TI’s chart about their standard offers on DAC chips, I can’t directly conclude that iFi may still use chips from the BB 179x series as they did with iFi Micro iDSD BL (BB 1793). At least for me it isn’t obvious when they call it 4 channel & true native DSD design.

 

 

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4. Loss of accessories

We can note the lack of additional iFi accessory like iPurifier3 and Spdif iPurifier2 compared to the Performance Edition, which were a welcomed add-on for that product.

As always, it’s a personal choice if you like a device or not ...
Me personally can’t say that I would go this route, even I love my iFi products absolutely for what they are and for what they deliver.
Ifi, I am still feeling you can do better, even without Thorsten Loesch. Perhaps straighten up the portfolio could help to avoid too many overlaps?

Cheers, Tom

Here are the ifi documents which are the basis fort this blog entry. I didn't touch a NEO iDSD v2..


NEO-iDSD-2-Briefing-Deck.pdfNEO-iDSD-2-Briefing-Deck.pdfNeo-iDSD2-User-Manual_Ver22.pdfNeo-iDSD2-User-Manual_Ver22.pdfPRESS-RELEASE-–-iFi-NEO-iDSD-2-Global.pdfNEO-iDSD-2_QSC_V8.pdf

 

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My entire reason for wanting this to replace my Performance Edition would be the availability of the Nexis app, which is, among other things, a DAC remote control on your phone. That's something I've wanted for the sake of convenience, since I control my player from my phone; why not the DAC also? Sadly, I tried the app and it doesn't recognize the Performance Edition.

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@Jud

If you are happy with the sq of the device (bit perfect mode?), you should keep your iFi gadgets and sell the Performance édition. 

Or perhaps ask iFi at Head-Fi if they provide a firmware update for the PE in the near future that enables the app usage before you sell/buy.

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4 hours ago, DuckToller said:

 

If you are happy with the sq of the device (bit perfect mode?), you should keep your iFi gadgets and sell the Performance édition. 

 

Yes, I like it enough that I'm not motivated to sell. It is in bit perfect mode, receiving DSD512 from the UPnP endpoint/NAA, and that is what I was looking for, something that would leave the signal alone until the DSD noise filter, final analog filter, and output. And also something with volume control so I could do without a separate preamp. This ticks all those boxes, so I'll keep it until I can find something reasonably priced that does all those things much better.

 

The only other thing I want is a remote control on my phone. 🙂 I might say something to iFi, but I don't have any particular expectation they would roll it out to legacy products when it might help them sell new ones (if it would even work with the older products).

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9 hours ago, Currawong said:

A couple of things: iFi's product engineer quit a couple of years ago, so the products are now designed by someone different. Also, their stated power output is obviously false, as they are known to use an instantaneous peak reading, not RMS. They state almost 5W of output in the Diablo, yet if that were RMS, it would melt the device, even if the battery could provide the current. A couple of different people measured the maximum output at 32 Ohms at less than 1W. So, that leads me to suspect that the Neo iDSD 2 will be the same, with less than 1W of output. 


Yes, that's obviously one of the problems with iFi as a former "engineering-driven" company that became "marketing-driven" which shows by a more recent focus on design awards, expensive accessories and bending information in order to create "unique selling points".

What's to think about a company that changes from openly using its technical features for marketing to blowing marketing fog around core ingredients?
When T. Loesch points out that the iDSD pro was conceptually a 1000$ DAC, thus the NEO iDSD only a 300$ device, most of us (seasoned audiophiles) may understand the obligation for iFi Audio to cut corners within the technologies used.

Consequently, in my view, their marketing approach seems to substitute engineering capabilities
 

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9 hours ago, DuckToller said:

When T. Loesch points out that the iDSD pro was conceptually a 1000$ DAC, thus the NEO iDSD only a 300$ device, most of us (seasoned audiophiles) may understand the obligation for iFi Audio to cut corners within the technologies used.

At those prices, they would have been near unbeatable, even if that was the dealer buy price (assuming a standard markup). As it is now, dealers have been ditching them. 

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On 9/28/2023 at 5:24 AM, Jud said:

 

Yes, I like it enough that I'm not motivated to sell. It is in bit perfect mode, receiving DSD512 from the UPnP endpoint/NAA, and that is what I was looking for, something that would leave the signal alone until the DSD noise filter, final analog filter, and output. And also something with volume control so I could do without a separate preamp. This ticks all those boxes, so I'll keep it until I can find something reasonably priced that does all those things much better.

 

The only other thing I want is a remote control on my phone. 🙂 I might say something to iFi, but I don't have any particular expectation they would roll it out to legacy products when it might help them sell new ones (if it would even work with the older products).

I have asked through my contact about a possible FW upgrade for the app function, response: negative, missing the IoT hardware on board. Hth, have a nice week-end !

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