PCM 768kHz! - 24bit - FREE TRACK from Carmen Gomes Inc.'s Ray! Album, Is this overkill or does it make sense?

 Is this overkill or does it make sense?

and why not go all the way with a 32bit 768kHz file?

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Ray! in 768kHz  Ray! - PCM 768kHz! - 24bit - FREE TRACK (Let The Good Times Roll)

The RME company is highly regarded by audio professionals. Before we started working with Merging, RME was our converter of choice. So when we got offered to test the RME ADI-2 FS, a compact 2-channel AD/DA converter we gladly approved.   The first comparison with our Merging Anubis was immediately positive. Lots of definition, a beautiful soundstage with perfect placement. And after powering it with the Ferrum Hypsos external power supply, a sense of calm and control was added to the experience. This is clearly a serious converter.   The RME has a maximum sample rate of 768kHz. To really see what the RME ADI-2 is capable off, we created a 768kHz/24bit file straight from our Studer A80 tape recorder playing the ¼" reel to reel master tape from our latest release.  Listening and A/B comparing with the Studer the result is quite convincing. In our opinion the sound is very close to the analog master tape.   We would like to share the results with you. Therefore we have made one 768kHz track from the album available for free for a limited time period.  The only favor we ask in return, is that you give us a bit of feedback; Is this a way forward? Do you also hear an even greater sense of realism compared to the lower formats or are you perfectly happy with the formats you have been using so far?   For anyone who would like to purchase the entire album in 768kHz but has already purchased the album in a lower resolution in the past week, the price difference will be refunded. Send us an email and you will receive a refund within a few days.

I guess it is logic development. The higher the sample rate the rounder the waveform.

Sorry for topic drift,

I looked into the cause of 5kHz square wave 192kHz PCM reconstructed analog waveform unstableness of above image of my previous post (Adobe Audition CS5.5 screenshot). 

When the number of convolution taps for analog waveform reconstruction is small, the reconstructed analog waveform shape is asymmetrical and unstable. By increasing convolution taps, waveform monotonically becomes stable symmetrical shape (Fig.2). In theory, number of convolution taps is infinite, analog waveform is perfectly reconstructed 😎 while, from the observation of Fig.2, 2047-tap or 4095-tap is good enough for this example.

WaveGene BLIT square wave generator outputs pretty accurate square wave PCM signal, and the input PCM data is not the problem cause.

It seems Adobe Audition analog waveform reconstruction is not so accurate for this particular case. Perhaps for the computing efficiency of graph rendering, accuracy is somewhat sacrificed. It is better to see it with a grain of salt when it shows dubious waveform shape.

Fig. 2

On 1/2/2022 at 8:30 AM, PAP said:

 Is this overkill or does it make sense?

and why not go all the way with a 32bit 768kHz file?

 

 

Makes sense if you have a Chord DAC which does 32 bit, but the majority of DAC's are 24 bit. I use PGGB up sampling for 7xx/24 which is basically

forensic reconstruction of what gets lost at 44 -192 rates.  Will be curious to see if a file thats not reconstructed sounds appreciably better.

Has anyone compared this file as one was mean't to and reported back to Sound Liasion?

I compared it using Xxhighend 24/352 Flac file (upsampled by Xx to 768) Let the good times roll to the free Sample 24/768 wave file.

I preferred the upsampled version using Xxhighend 24/352 Flac upsampled to 768. When I set Xx to not upsample I could not hear a difference between files.

As Xxhighend upsamples all my music files to 768 and has done for ages this is an interesting direction Sound Liasion is taking.

Robert

In my post above I made a mistake the 24/352 Flac was only upsampled to 705600 with Xx not 768000.

Further listening with Xxhighend not upsampling the 768 Wave sample version definitely sounding better than 352 Flac version.

Anyway food for thought!!!

11 hours ago, robocop said:

In my post above I made a mistake the 24/352 Flac was only upsampled to 705600 with Xx not 768000.

 

Further listening with Xxhighend not upsampling the 768 Wave sample version definitely sounding better than 352 Flac version.

Anyway food for thought!!!

Indeed. Thanks!

Gave it a listen, its a nice recording but a bit of a softball. 1 singer and 2 instruments at most at any one time, would barely tax 48/24. I find that 7xx recordings show

off best with massed instruments where counterpoint and massed instruments often are "blenderized" at lower rates.

18 hours ago, davide256 said:

Gave it a listen, its a nice recording but a bit of a softball. 1 singer and 2 instruments at most at any one time, would barely tax 48/24. I find that 7xx recordings show

off best with massed instruments where counterpoint and massed instruments often are "blenderized" at lower rates.

That's only the first 2 songs.

Listen to Drown in My Own Tears or Don't you Know baby

Lot's of energy and counterpoint on those;

Even from the samples it's clear.  ; Samples RAY!

55 minutes ago, PAP said:

That's only the first 2 songs.

Listen to Drown in My Own Tears or Don't you Know baby

 

Lot's of energy and counterpoint on those;

Even from the samples it's clear.  ; Samples RAY!

I am disinclined to do so since they aren't free nor does it venture into a challenging recording to do a small ensemble vocal recording. Something like Orff's Carmina Burana,

Prokofievs Alexander Nevsky or a John Williams blockbuster movie sound track score are what is required in scale for an appropriate test. Performances like this are what I consider

"cheat" music, the type  usually played by dealers when idle at audio shows to sound best with minimum system challenge

I really like the sound of my DXD download. I am a big fan of that band, they really dare to make an album with a concept just like their previous album which I consider a masterpiece; Discovering the Music of Robert Johnson.

I have listened to the 768khz sample and the sound is a bit different, maybe a little warmer? but is that because of the DAC they use or is it the sample rate?

I have ordered the CD on the band's website https://carmengomes.bandcamp.com/ and I'm curious as to how well that will sound on my trusty Maranzt CD player.

But the real sound difference is between the "One Mic" and the Multi Mic tracks on the album.

Maybe that is the question Sound Liaison should ask.

On 1/9/2022 at 9:14 PM, davide256 said:

I am disinclined to do so since they aren't free nor does it venture into a challenging recording to do a small ensemble vocal recording. Something like Orff's Carmina Burana,

Prokofievs Alexander Nevsky or a John Williams blockbuster movie sound track score are what is required in scale for an appropriate test. Performances like this are what I consider

"cheat" music, the type  usually played by dealers when idle at audio shows to sound best with minimum system challenge

I think that the Carmen Gomes Inc. Up Jumped The Devil download is serious challenge to any system.  But ok it is a small ensemble, but with an impressive amount of texture.

(the redbook CD sounds good too; carmengomes.bandcamp.com/track/up-jumped-the-devil)

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Carmen Gomes Inc. have created an album that sounds like an imaginary road movie. Listening one perceives Robert walking late at night, en route in the Mississippi Delta, reflecting back on his life.
The low A, 27.5 Hz, from the bowed down tuned double bass representing the Mississippi night, the drums creating the sounds surrounding the night and the guitar being Robert’s mind.

On 1/9/2022 at 9:14 PM, davide256 said:

I am disinclined to do so since they aren't free nor does it venture into a challenging recording to do a small ensemble vocal recording. Something like Orff's Carmina Burana,

Prokofievs Alexander Nevsky or a John Williams blockbuster movie sound track score are what is required in scale for an appropriate test. Performances like this are what I consider

"cheat" music, the type  usually played by dealers when idle at audio shows to sound best with minimum system challenge

Hi Davide, Which recording of Carmina Burana would you suggets as being the best recorded?

1 hour ago, christian u said:

Hi Davide, Which recording of Carmina Burana would you suggets as being the best recorded?

Can't say that I know which is best, just that the 2 CD recordings I have aren't impressive for clarity. This vinyl recording easily betters the 2 for dynamics

and bass, is the sort of difference that makes one look for higher res digital recordings.

https://www.discogs.com/release/3131502-Carl-Orff-André-PrevinLondon-Symphony-Orchestra-Chorus-St-Clement-Danes-Grammer-School-Boys-Choir-S

On 1/10/2022 at 3:53 PM, christian u said:

I really like the sound of my DXD download. I am a big fan of that band, they really dare to make an album with a concept just like their previous album which I consider a masterpiece; Discovering the Music of Robert Johnson.

I have listened to the 768khz sample and the sound is a bit different, maybe a little warmer? but is that because of the DAC they use or is it the sample rate?

I have ordered the CD on the band's website https://carmengomes.bandcamp.com/ and I'm curious as to how well that will sound on my trusty Maranzt CD player.

 

But the real sound difference is between the "One Mic" and the Multi Mic tracks on the album.

Maybe that is the question Sound Liaison should ask.

it is my impression that the quite songs sound really well with the 'one mic' approach but the louder pieces probably works better with more microphones.

On 2/17/2022 at 4:55 PM, davide256 said:

Can't say that I know which is best, just that the 2 CD recordings I have aren't impressive for clarity. This vinyl recording easily betters the 2 for dynamics

and bass, is the sort of difference that makes one look for higher res digital recordings.

 

https://www.discogs.com/release/3131502-Carl-Orff-André-PrevinLondon-Symphony-Orchestra-Chorus-St-Clement-Danes-Grammer-School-Boys-Choir-S

 

I never understood why LP's often have higher dynamic range than Red Book CDs

Slightly off topic but idk where to get this information:  Which specific digital recorder did you use to create a 768/24 PCM file?

On 1/2/2022 at 2:30 PM, PAP said:

 Is this overkill or does it make sense?

and why not go all the way with a 32bit 768kHz file?

 

 

20 hours ago, HelpfulDad said:

Slightly off topic but idk where to get this information:  Which specific digital recorder did you use to create a 768/24 PCM file?

the answer is in PAP's post. RME ADI2

RME site doesn’t show this as an AD converter only DA

I guess It's the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition ;  https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html

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Ultra-fidelity PCM/DSD 768 kHz AD/DA Converter

As the most flexible converter available, the ADI-2 Pro offers balanced/unbalanced analog I/Os, double Extreme Power headphone outputs, SteadyClock III, 4-stage hardware input and output level control, DSP-based signal processing, external power supply operation, Class Compliant USB compatibility, sample rates up to 768 kHz as well as DSD record and Direct DSD playback (256 / 11.2 MHz).

 

Btw just listened to the Redbook CD version on a  Marantz SA-10. Sounded VERY good.

The CD mastering is excellent. But of course "only" 44.1 .

it's available via  Carmen Gomes Band Camp site 

1 hour ago, oso said:

I guess It's the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition ;  https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html

 

 

As I found out.  No matter.  Your answer got me on track to find out it was the pro variant which is easy to miss.  Thank you for the reply.

On 4/20/2022 at 10:12 PM, HelpfulDad said:

As I found out.  No matter.  Your answer got me on track to find out it was the pro variant which is easy to miss.  Thank you for the reply.

Glad to be helpful🙂

On 4/20/2022 at 9:18 PM, oso said:

Btw just listened to the Redbook CD version on a  Marantz SA-10. Sounded VERY good.

The CD mastering is excellent. But of course "only" 44.1 .

  

 

it's available via  Carmen Gomes Band Camp site 

 

 

and only  "16bit"🙂 . But the CD has been created from the high resolution master, and that I believe is the reason it sounds so good.