Linn Majik DS-I Review

suriyothai · April 21, 2010

Great post Chris, it is really exciting to see new products that are tailored towards the new way we listen to music. Thank you for the detailed review and suggestions to how the Majik DSi can be used. It has almost convinced me heading to the nearest Linn dealer.

I have a couple of question though, do you recommend using the Mac Mini connected to the Majik DSi through ethernet?

What would be the difficulties (if any) concerning Audio Midi setup?

Also if this setup was supplemented with an Ipad as a control point, would it suffer from the same lack of meta-data you ran into with Twonky media server on a PC?

I guess I am trying to figure out how best to use the Mac Mini as a media server, without the need for an NAS.

Thank you very much for you hard work.

Elprior · April 21, 2010

He Chris,

excellent review, especially on the different configurations side (very slick).

I was more than curious as to how to use this along with MC.

Now I'm a bit puzzled by the fact that the spdif input is better...

Elp

nomenclatura · April 21, 2010

This was exactly the review I was waiting for - Thanks a lot!

In fact the most important point for me was your statement about the S/PDIF input vs. Ethernet, because this is the way I plan to connect my Mac Mini to the DS-I. I already have it like this via M-Audio Transit USB => Toslink =>DENON 4306 =>Bi-Amping with Piega TC50 = really great sound. My idea is to reduce the Denon to the pure AVR part and use the DS-I for the Stereo. This can be integrated perfectly via the feature Unity Gain, means if using the Denon as input for the DS-I the Denon takes over the volume control for the 5.1 setup.

Because you mentioned the quality of the S/PDIF input via Coax, is/was there any difference to the toslink input? Reason behind is, I really want to keep on using iTunes with Pure Music. Jumping through my music library or listen to my numerous playlists is very convenient with iTunes and - this is the best feature 100% stable! I have read quite a lot about problems with Twonky, PlugPlayer, Konfik, etc. ... .

Second question: Besides configuring the DS-I via Web-Interface (Bonjour), are there any possibilities to control the DS-I via Browser, too? I mean volume control, input select, etc. like with the Denon.

@suriyothai: I have connected a WD My Book Studio II via Firewire to my Mac Mini. If there is no access to the disks the WD goes into sleep modus after several minutes - same to my Mac. You can share the disk within the whole network. So for me there is no need for a NAS.

Regards

Paul

Audio_ELF · April 21, 2010

Chris

Were you (did you) test using the SPDIF output into an alternative (your Berkeley) DAC? I think this is possible - there is certainly an SPDIF output on the Magik DS-I.

This would be interesting as might indicate how the Linn DS is as a source for a DAC. It's often commented (by Linn and their enthusistic users) that the SPDIF output is identical on all the DS range (well Sneaky DS and Magik DS) and people often ask if the Linn DS would be a good source avoiding computers in the listening room.

Eloise

PS. Is there any change that when you do reviews you could list European price and/or distributors?

Audio_ELF · April 21, 2010

Chris - this question might be better served asked on the J.River thread, but can J.River be setup so that it is a control point only, accessing the music stored on a separate UPnP server on a NAS (or other computer)?

Was thinking in this way J.River would work well on a netBook device for control of the Linn DS (or other UPnP renderer).

Eloise

Elprior · April 21, 2010

Hi Eloise,

I think this is using configuration 3, with JRiver pointing to the NAS as the source of files.

Elp

Encore · April 21, 2010

I really like your thorough description of the different ways of running and controlling the DS. I remember having had trouble to come to grasps with the different components needed to put together a DS-based system. That was when I borrowed a Sneaky DS a long time ago (actually not, but many equipment generations past ;-) ).

One thing I'm missing from your review is an evaluation of how the digital output of the DS-I measures up when it's feeding your favorite DAC. When I borrowed the Sneaky, I found its digital output into my then Accustic Arts DAC to be very good, at least compared to the digital out of an unmodified Sq.box3. I have been contemplating for some time now to get a Sneaky or Majik DS to use as an S/PDIF source to my EmmLabs DAC, but your experience with the DS lowers my expectations. Another related question: Were the files played through Ethernet and S/PDIF both FLAC? In my system, FLAC files also suffer from a lack of reverb when compared to WAV files ...

Tog · April 23, 2010

Fab review - thinking about replacing my Cyrus kit with the Majik DS-I but have been put off by the rough edges of its software particularly when using a mac. I will probably end up using the optical input from a mac straight into the Majik and wait for the software to improve. I was particularly interested by your views on the sound quality coming from the direct input.

The alternative would be the NAIMUniti - great reviews - has a CD drive as well - digital Ipod input (apple approved like Wadia) and wireless streaming. The downside for me is the lack of ALAC or Aiff support (FLAC or god forbid WAV!) and to my mind its aesthetics; all texture black metal and neon green. Should I be worried by looks - well I did marry Mrs Tog because she was beautiful so I suppose I have set a precedent.

Any one else tried the NAIM and can see past the blacksmith aesthetic?

Yours, one of the beautiful people, tog

Lakefield · April 23, 2010

I noticed your, well, 'problem' with the sound quality of the Ethernet compared to SPDIF. Did you use a dedicated Network for the DS-i. Speaking of only DS-i, NAS and Control Unit. I often read about Linn users having the same trouble and a dedicated Router (which can be connected to your Home-Network) solved that little problem.

Ethernet and SPDIF should have the same quality (when comming from the same source, like a Mac Mini) as they share the same DAC.

An interesting point is that the DS-i can also act as a High End ADC (Analouge-to-Digital Converter). combined with the superb Phonostage you'll be able to transfer your Vinyl via SPDIF to your Computer in 24bit/192kHz! Ain't that great !?

And the best is yet to come. With one of the next Firmware updates it will be possible to stream Analouge signals into your Home-Network. 24/192 Vinyl streams in my Bathroom!!

Tog · April 24, 2010

A refreshing viewpoint - SPDIF & ethernet (sic) having the same quality - there are those (Linn included) who would argue that ethernet is better and avoids the dreaded jitter. My Linn dealer thinks I am bonkers to use optical instead of the digital streaming bit of the Majik - my guess is either Chris found that the DAC re-clocks the signal very well or jitter isn't that much of a problem. The issue about sub-networks has been commented on by reviewers in the UK many of whom are a bit mystified by the need for a separate router when other competitors have no issues.

My main gripe is that the firmware/control software is so Mac unfriendly and using Songbook to control the Macs with its insistence on playlists would drive this small bear nuts. Of course most Linn dealers are preset to sell you a RipNAS rather than fiddle with Macs.

yours, still fiddling, tog

vortecjr · April 24, 2010

Nice work. Exciting product for our hobby and I bet it's a just a glimps of what is to come.

I have some comments though:)

You say, "•1. Use the DS-I as an integrated one chassis unit that does everything. (DS-I Integrated)"

I guess I don't see that it does everything as you need a bunch of support features to make it complete. For example, ripping, storing, network switching and so on. I'm putting it down, but it only does what it does.

Eloise said, "It's often commented (by Linn and their enthusistic users) that the SPDIF output is identical on all the DS range (well Sneaky DS and Magik DS) and people often ask if the Linn DS would be a good source avoiding computers in the listening room."

I know Eloise is just repeating what people are saying. However, when people ask that question (if the Linn DS would be a good source avoiding computers in the listening room) we just need to point out that it is a computer! You can paint it pink with black dots and it would still be a computer. Sure it's not a typical computer and we can leave it at that.

Now what is left is for me to drop an amp in my server so I can say it does everything....hehehe

Jesus R

www.sonore.us

Encore · April 24, 2010

"Eloise said, "It's often commented (by Linn and their enthusistic users) that the SPDIF output is identical on all the DS range (well Sneaky DS and Magik DS) and people often ask if the Linn DS would be a good source avoiding computers in the listening room."

I know Eloise is just repeating what people are saying. However, when people ask that question (if the Linn DS would be a good source avoiding computers in the listening room) we just need to point out that it is a computer! You can paint it pink with black dots and it would still be a computer. Sure it's not a typical computer and we can leave it at that."

I think there's more to it. Since it is an audio product, we may set our hopes higher that the engineers have thought of fitting it with a good power supply, something that IME has a huge influence on the sound, also when is source's only task is to deliver an S/PDIF signal. And to me it would seem that a good power suplly is the Achilles heel of ordinary computers.

vortecjr · April 24, 2010

I'm sure Linn has done their homework on the power supply and it sounds great. I can tell you that the power supply makes or breaks the system from tests we have conducted! A great power supply for a computer audio setup is actually not that hard to find and are not very expensive. There are some good products on the market (designed in the US and made overseas) that have excellent specs and perform well and are pretty cheap. These companies make a good amount of units and that keeps the price down. It's a win win situtation to do a little bit of research....

Jesus R

www.sonore.us

ferenc · April 24, 2010

If on a Mac, Elgato Eyeconnect used as UPnP server, it will convert ALAC or AIFF to wav in real-time, so this way Naim Uniti can be used with those file types as a UPnP renderer.

dummy · April 24, 2010

Hello!

I am a newbie here and a tad slow (well, ok, dumb!) so I am not quite sure I truly understand what the new Linn truly is...

At first, I pretty much thought it was an all-you-can-eat type of product but after talking with a Linn seller at an audio show, I am not quite sure anymore. Thing is, the way he answered me, I felt like he didn't knew better either, from his answer vs what I've read about the DS-i. Also, I felt he was just as lost as I was by his demeanor and told me whatever to make me go away, but who knows... Maybe I had too much Tang that day!

1- I asked If the Linn was a DAC too, beside being a streamer. No was his reply. Everything has to go through a network/router for It to work. Ok. Fine. Now, reading about It, and now reading this review, my understanding is that It is (can be?) both. Meaning, the ethernet connection with all the scenarios proposed here, makes It a streamer, while the fifth configuration here (SPDIF) makes It a regular SPDIF DAC. Am I correct here or is It more complicated than that?

2- Although It would be beside the point to buy It for that, If using only the analogue audio inputs, does the DS-i becomes simply a regular integrated just like their Majik-i integrated or any other integrated for that matter?

The thing is, I am still not quite sure I understand what is the difference between a USB-DAC and a streamer. I mean, I know what a DAC is/does but in regard to computer audio I am a bit at loss... I know this is pretty much computer 101 here but, hey, I am dumb, what can I say?! Is there a "Computer audio for dummies" out there?

My understanding is that a DAC is, well, a DAC (!) and a streamer is some sort of specialist audio computer with a DAC, ie, with an interface, to deal with everything.

And that the Linn is a pretty good one, with better audio (DAC) than others (Transporter?). Where the Peachtree is an integrated with a DAC.

Right? Wrong?

Who cares?

Oh well...

The one who'll answer me like I am a 3 year old here, will win, well, my gratitude! How's that?!

Thanks!

Lakefield · April 24, 2010

#1: Yes, the DS-i is a DAC as well (you can use the Tape-Out and connect it to another Pre-Amp, this works with SPDIF and Ethernet. Well, but it wouldn't make sense buying a DS-i and use it just as a normal DAC). Config. 5 is used as SPDIF DAC.

#2: Yes, the DS-i is pretty much like the Majik-i combined with the Majik DS. Plus extra Digital inputs. You can use it like any other analogue Amp. I think if you buy the Majik-i and the Majik DS you'll get a better performance out of it, but it's much more expensive (2200€ + 2400€ = 4600€) (Sorry, i only know the german price tags). The DS-i will give you 90% of the performance but it will cost much less (3000€) and is better equipped.

Difference between a USB-DAC and a streamer:

A USB-DAC is like a external Sound card. You hook it up with your computer, Select the DAC in the settings, etc. and connect the DAC to your Audio-System. USB cable length is limited to 5m, so this will only work if you have a Computer/Laptop in your Listening Room. And you better make sure the Computer is quiet (and not quiet in Computer terms, but in HiFi terms).

The idea of a Network Player/Streamer is that you have your music stored on a Server (Computer/NAS) which is placed in one room of your house and you can have access to it from another room. Which means that you can listen in your room to the music you like while another person can listen to music in another room they like. So you can connect several Players to your network and access the server. A Network streamer requires some basic Network knowledge, but don't be shy.

You can of course use a computer/NAS just in your room and connect the DS-i via Ethernet to it.

Well, i orderd the DS-i and i don't have no use for Multiroom Audio. So i will decide then if i use it via Ethernet or SPDIF. I got a Mac Mini and we will see what sounds best (i think there will be no big difference, but i can play 192kHz files via ethernet (the SPDIF input of the DS-i can handle 192kHz as well, but the Mac Mini won't)), but more important what handles the best. A Streamer stands and falls with the provided software, so does the Computer.

If you use it with SPDIF or Ethernet, you won't pay too much for it. The analogue Majik-i is 2200€, so you'll get a State-of-the-art DAC/Streamer for 800€

I hope this will help you a little bit.

Tog · April 24, 2010

Cool

yours, cool, tog

blueteq · April 25, 2010

I have been a Linn supporter for years now, Having owned the Sneaky DS (Majik DSi's Little brother) for over a year now I have to say Digital is the way to go.

I put together a very nice ubuntu server running Twonky Media and a few scripts that allows me to insert a CD it will auto rip it into lossless flac.

Also Sign up for B&W Society of Sound, think its $59US per year and every month you get a free 24bit album. They sound terrific!

More and more artists and labels are now releasing 24bit audio. I have a few friends that have bands who gives me their studio master digital copies... make a difference.

However even CD ripped sound great, very nice DAC.

And as I use to worry about vibrations etc in the past, separating the transport... etc..

suriyothai · April 25, 2010

@Lakefield: just curious, how do you plan to control the Mac Mini, will you be using an ipod Touch/iphone, or connect the mini to a screen to use the front row GUI/ or something like Plex and Boxee?

I am about to pull the trigger on a Mac Mini + DS-i combo and would like opinions on how compatible the two are together.

Thanks,

blueteq · April 25, 2010

Depending on the UPnP software you use.

Twonky, which is paid for is multi platform and works very well.

Not to over promote twonky, go look on Linn's site, Twonky is one of the few that follow most of the DLNA standard.

I have tried most Control point software on the iphone, and Plug Player is the best... supports Album art in the latest release.

O yes, FLAC and OS X dont play well together... get VLC to playback tracks on the Mac.

Also to rip on the Mini... get MAX.

Encore · April 25, 2010

"A great power supply for a computer audio setup is actually not that hard to find and are not very expensive."

OK, I didn't know that. I raised the issue in a separate thread some time ago, and from the replies I got, it seemed that this was an area that still needed to be explored. This has actually kept from exploring the computer route, so I'm glad that there options available.

Lakefield · April 25, 2010

@ suriyothai: I will control it with my iPod Touch first, but an iPad is what i'm thinking of. If i decide to use the DS-i via Ethernet then i have to figure it out what works best for me, PlugPlayer, Songbook, etc. When i decide to use SPDIF then i will use iTunes (got everything in ALAC) with the Remote App. I think when using Frontrow etc. you have to keep your TV on. I don't want that.

I will also try the Kinsky stuff. I got Win XP running on the Mini as well. I think foobar can also stream music to the DS-i, am i right? But when running XP i won't use it with SPDIF.

This stuff is all new to me as well, so we'll see what is what in a few weeks.

Audio_ELF · April 25, 2010

Jesus commented on a couple of thins I said so I thought I should clarify.

First off, I commented on the digital section of all the DS streamers being the same. That is from other people's comments yes, but is relevant as if Chris had tested the SPDIF output into his Berkeley (or other DAC) the results would probably been relevat for the other (Sneaky and Magik) Linn DS devices.

Secondly, he commented on my use of the term computer. I think when people talk about a "computer in the listening room" they are talking about using a general purpose Windows or Mac computer (adapted fr the purpose) but still with all the potential noise and control issues. A device such as the Linn DS avoids that, is single purpose and so the OS is designed for that kind of control. You also avoid messing about with WASAPI, ASIO, Core Audio, Audio Midi settings, etc. A custom built computer (such as Jesus' Sonore) is more comperable to the Linn.

Eloise

vortecjr · April 25, 2010

lets explore some power supplies and see if we can't convert you into a computeraudiophile yet. These are two that come to mind.

First up is a power supply I used then in my first generation machines (current is third generation). IMO: it's reliable and used in data servers, powerful and used by gamers, clean and used for medical/lab grade applications. The exact one we used is no longer around but this is the series that continues it. They start around $100 us for 500 watts. Don't be afraid to call them up and chat and ask then questions....we did! http://www.pcpower.com/products/power_supplies/ultra-quiet/

Second up is a 12V power supply that seems great (have not used it yet) for a build like the CAPS machine or other 12V units like the one we have;) It's a combo battery and sophisticated filter/charging system made specifically for audiophiles, but it fits the bill for a computeraudiophile. This one is around $500 and they have others with out the battery that are less.

http://www.kingrex.co.uk/leadacid_battery.html

Eloise, long time no chat:( I think we are on the same page and thanks for your comments.

Clarification: Above I said, "I'm putting it down, but it only does what it does."

I meant to say....I'm not putting it down, but it only does what it does.

Encore · April 25, 2010

I actually already consider myself a computer audiophile ;-) Ok, I use a Sq.box, but it still requires a computer. As Eloise stated, not having to deal with WASAPI etcetera is one area where the Linn DS'es have an advantage. I'm not a computer illiterate, but I don't enjoy messing with convoluted series of dialogue-box settings. The reason the Linn appeals to me over, say, the SB Touch, is that it can handle 192 kHz.

But it's good to know that there are alternatives out there. Thanks!

Linn Majik DS-I Review

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