Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

Hi Bob,

Great work. Looking forward to reading about this latest mission.

Meantime as well as the all important listening comparisons, given this is a Euphony dedicated thread it might be good to start with a quick primer on what Euphony and Stylus are and how they differ from say Audiolinux and say the WindowsServer OS.

Just a suggestion.

Look forward to your listening impressions. Tho I hope it doesn't cost me any money 😉

Cheers,

Alan

9 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Meantime as well as the all important listening comparisons, given this is a Euphony dedicated thread it might be good to start with a quick primer on what Euphony and Stylus are and how they differ from say Audiolinux and say the WindowsServer OS.

Alan,

There is another thread about Euphony OS that accidently got me started on this path.  I created this one to separate from the what does it do thread.  Let me know what you think please.  Also, I was keeping the sound impressions over on the shootout thread I started.  

I really do not know the best way to manage all this content.  

Bob,

In that thread you mention your wish to look at "other OS variants".  Do you, or anyone else, have a feeling for how many supported Linux audio-specific OS's are out there, aside from Euphony and AudioLinux? 

As you continue your evaluation of Euphony I am interested to know if you uncover many tuneable parameters, something users of Audiolinux seem to appreciate.

3 hours ago, bobfa said:

Alan,

 

There is another thread about Euphony OS that accidently got me started on this path.  I created this one to separate from the what does it do thread.  Let me know what you think please.  Also, I was keeping the sound impressions over on the shootout thread I started.  

 

I really do not know the best way to manage all this content.  

 

 

Thanks Bob,

Read that entire thread and it's a good start.

Still think a quick primer here would be helpful. You're on a bit of a roll currently but you're also creating quite a few threads and cross pollinating which can make it tricky to follow.

Cheers,

Alan

8 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Thanks Bob,

 

Read that entire thread and it's a good start.

 

Still think a quick primer here would be helpful. You're on a bit of a roll currently but you're also creating quite a few threads and cross pollinating which can make it tricky to follow.

 

Cheers,

Alan

I will work on a “Primer”. 

Status report from the last few days of setting up Euphony OS.

Communictions 

I have used the tech support system they provide with great results.   I have placed 13 tickets in the system and actually closed one myself.  Several of the tickets have been properly brought to a close.  We have at least two issues that will be fixed in the next release.  Their KB has at least one new entry and there will be more.

There is one hard issue for me.  They had not tested with two Roon instances Core and Bridge and there is an issue with that kind of setup (my standard setup) that will require a system software update from them.  I do not know if this will be in the next release, but I am working around this by running Squeezelite on my endpoint for now.  This should be in the next update and I have asked to be placed on an early release.  

We have had one remote access session that due to my network design we had to use TeamViewer.  (I kept their tech support up way too late; SORRY!)

Setup Status

So right now I have Roon Core running on my Xeon box and Squeezelite running on my NUC.  I am not running bridged.  I have both devices setup over fiber links to a Ubiquity switch.  I am migrating my network to Ubiquity.  I intend to test using the smart switch for isolation in the future.

Next Steps

I will be doing some listening tests, I will test in single box mode running Roon. First with the  Xeon Server, then the NUC.

The final tests will be in Two Box mode.

2 minutes ago, bobfa said:

Status report from the last few days of setting up Euphony OS.

 

Communictions 

 

I have used the tech support system they provide with great results.   I have placed 13 tickets in the system and actually closed one myself.  Several of the tickets have been properly brought to a close.  We have at least two issues that will be fixed in the next release.  Their KB has at least one new entry and there will be more.

 

There is one hard issue for me.  They had not tested with two Roon instances Core and Bridge and there is an issue with that kind of setup (my standard setup) that will require a system software update from them.  I do not know if this will be in the next release, but I am working around this by running Squeezelite on my endpoint for now.  This should be in the next update and I have asked to be placed on an early release.  

 

We have had one remote access session that due to my network design we had to use TeamViewer.  (I kept their tech support up way too late; SORRY!)

 

Setup Status

 

So right now I have Roon Core running on my Xeon box and Squeezelite running on my NUC.  I am not running bridged.  I have both devices setup over fiber links to a Ubiquity switch.  I am migrating my network to Ubiquity.  I intend to test using the smart switch for isolation in the future.

 

Next Steps

 

I will be doing some listening tests this afternoon with the current system layout.  Over the next little bit I will also test in single box mode running Roon.  I will setup Roon Core on the NUC and listen.  I will then swap in the Xeon Server.  This will be done using the HDPLEX Power supply as it is the only supply I have that will run both devices.

Bob,

I've lost track of all the threads you've opened up, so apologies if this is the wrong place to ask some questions:

1. Does Euphony supply a ramroot equivalent? I.e. can you run the root partition on a RAMdisk?
2. If you're only interested in the OS, is it possible to skip all the Stylus "stuff?"
3. Is it possible to tweak files? For example, squeezelite.conf to change buffer settings?
4. Can you play with processor frequency?
5. Can you isolate cores?

Now regarding your experiments, when you describe your results, can you also please clarify the system:

1. Server:
   1. HW description: CPU, RAM, mobo etc
   2. PSU:
   3. OS used:
   4. OS in RAM?
   5. Music server: for example, Roon Core
2. Endpoint:
   1. HW description: CPU, RAM, mobo etc
   2. PSU:
   3. OS used:
   4. OS in RAM?
   5. Music server: for example, Roon Bridge

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I've lost track of all the threads you've opened up, so apologies if this is the wrong place to ask some questions

I tried to do this in a way that makes sense.  I am sorry if I did not.    I have to do a quick Primer on Euphony.  They are selling this as a one box solution.  We have been playing with the AudioLinux Lego set and Euphony  is Barbie in a single outfit with no Ken!  Euphony sells this software stand-alone, on a setup SSD and in purpose built computers.  I may have pushed their envelope a bit.😉

** I would love for Euphony to get involved in the forum.  **

Here are the answers to your questions to the best of my knowledge.  

1. Does Euphony supply a ramroot equivalent? I.e. can you run the root partition on a RAMdisk?     (I do not know)
2. If you're only interested in the OS, is it possible to skip all the Stylus "stuff?"   (YES and I am doing that)
3. Is it possible to tweak files? For example, squeezelite.conf to change buffer settings?  (I do not see how and I am working up a feature request)
4. Can you play with processor frequency?  (not that I know of )
5. Can you isolate cores? (not that I know of)

My hardware is the two devices I built in my "From 0 to ????) Series with very minor modifications

Server:

 ASUS WS C246 Pro Motherboard
Intel Xeon E-2124G
 Two Kensington 8GB ECC RAM

 Internal HDPLEX DC to ATX converter

Euphony OS standard install (do not know about RAMroot) 

Roon Core 

Music on external USB 3 drive

HEPLEX 200 driving all devices. 

Endpoint:

NUC 7i7 Dawson Canyon

AKASA case

32GB RAM. (I have been told that single stick RAM can be a problem with NUC so use two sticks.  I have these and this is overkill)

32GB Optane

Standard Ehpuony OS installs

Running Squezlite. (split Roon systems are broken in Euphony right now)

Uptone Audio JS-2 Power supply

Networking:

I am in the process of changing the home(s)/office network to Ubquity.  Almost all of the gear is here, I just have to finish the RF design. (My in-laws are next door and I manage that also).  

I am using separate 1Gb fiber network runs to the Server and Endpoint.  The server has an FMC powered by the LPS.  The endpoint has an FMC to the TLS switch. (I intend to test with the EtherRegen when Uptone Audio ships that product).

 Note that I am not bridged.  I have to see how that works down the road. 

----------------

More on the current status.

This got started on a Lark and has turned into a Project.

Today my system is set up as described here.  This is complex and expensive.  In the little bit of time yesterday we had to listen this sounded really good. BUT split Roon systems are not working right due to a problem in the way Euphony implemented Roon, and I am going to listen today with squeezelite on the endpoint.  (While working, of course😎). 

I really want to test both the NUC and the Xeon as one box solution.   I have this feeling that the split setup is a lot better,...

---------

If I put my "Karnak" hat on I would predict that I will end up with split core and output on Roon server and just maybe squeezlite as my output. 

Bob

I have a work around setup in my endpoint right now that lets it run Roonbridge.  Bleeding edge of testing I guess.  My understanding is that the fix for this problem will be in the next release.  I DO NOT have a date for that.  I hope what I am finding does not delay their release.

I can start my listening tests and the shootout with AL.

Bob

This has probably been posted elsewhere but I found this Euphony guide from their website helpful:

http://audiokernel.com/EuphonyGuide.pdf

2 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

Brief review/experience of Euphony OS/stylus:

 

So my experience with Euphony started from Macbook Air by rebooting into it.  I use the Euphony Stylus software player.  There is quite a bit of improvement compared with Mac OS running Audirvana direct mode. This was most prominent with H-RES DXD/DSD, and sound significantly better than lower RES, where as before the difference was not as great with Mac OS. Since my Mac only has 4 G RAM, it was rather diff to play these heavy files, and not able to load entire file into RAM. However, with Euphony OS, it is a much more efficient OS, so I was able to load entire track  (100% buffer) , even DSD256 files, despite only 4G RAM. Upsampling was difficult due to the low CPU.

With the HDPlex silent PC + its LPS the improvement is huge. More significant than the previous improvement from MAC OS to Euphony. Again using Stylus Player, there is now super wide soundscape, superb imaging that is comparable to SACD/CD. Organic and detailed without clinical. However also very revealing. Poor recordings stand out clearly, the Hi Res DXD/DSD can sound really superb, THis is partly because I now have abandoned the galvanic isolation and other conditioners from iFi.  Those gadgets degrade the sound, put a veil around it, or makes it sound too gentle.polite, or just not make any difference.  The Euphony can play DSD256 flawlessly, even if upsampled from PCM--->DSD via embedded HQplayer,  

100% buffer - entire track loaded, and also via ECache, which allows entire album from  external drive loaded to RAM.

So I don't notice much difference whether the file is from SSD SATA drive where the Euphony OS is, or from external HDD.

 

I think both the LPS and the Pinkfaun Audio bridge I put in make a huge difference, and allows Euphony OS its true potential.

This is single box system so I can't comment on Roon or NAS etc. 

 

Euphony OS is in SSD -SAMSUNG 2.5"  SATA EVO 860 

16 G RAM

CPU- Ryzen 2700x

HDPlex PC, -  19V; Samsung SSD 5 V;  PF USB bridge 5 V, all external supplied by HDP LPS, 

 

 

I will eventually run on AL + JRiver to do M-ch (euphony can do that too but not with 3 DACs) 

 

hope this helps.

Thanks for the review.  Do you know if its possible to run Audirvana with the Euphony OS rather than the Stylus player?

On 3/14/2019 at 1:48 PM, bobfa said:

 

** I would love for Euphony to get involved in the forum.  **

 

I sent an email to Arthur letting him know of all the recent interest in Euphony on this forum. I'm sure he'll drop by soon.  😉

Maybe a dumb question, but how do I turn on legacy boot on a NUC7PJYH? I can't find any corresponding entry in its BIOS. (also using search for "legacy")

And the option to turn on/off UEFI boot is greyed out.

@bobfa I think you got a NUC7i7DN board, right? Is it possible that my NUC has lesser options in its BIOS than yours?

At Euphony Audio they told me that an internal SSD works with UEFI but it didn't work either using the trial image. Or is the trial image just for USB flash storages and the SSD image is different?

59 minutes ago, Poldi said:

Maybe a dumb question, but how do I turn on legacy boot on a NUC7PJYH? I can't find any corresponding entry in its BIOS. (also using search for "legacy")

And the option to turn on/off UEFI boot is greyed out.

 

@bobfa I think you got a NUC7i7DN board, right? Is it possible that my NUC has lesser options in its BIOS than yours?

 

At Euphony Audio they told me that an internal SSD works with UEFI but it didn't work either using the trial image. Or is the trial image just for USB flash storages and the SSD image is different?

Hello,

since the Weekend i had a closer look on the new Euphony V3. I am using 2 NUC7i7DNHE and daphile  Client/Server before. Euphony V3 ist a real big step in sq. euphony makes thinks simplier. i just need one nuc7i7 to have a better result than 2 nuc´s before. The Stylus Player makes a real good Job. i was using embedded hq-player with different results. it depends on the song if the Stylus upsampling or the hq-player upsampling is more plesant. After that i tried euphony as core and roon (1 step) without hqplayer - first with only one nuc. In most cases i liked the roon Performance with euphony core. But in that Situation were everything is new, we had a look at the latest volumio for x86. volumio in the lates Version is not that far away from euphony - worth a try! at the Moment, there is no way back to daphile!

-Pro Daphile: free - good implementation of qobuz/tidal e.g.

- pro euphony - big step upwards in sq - easy to use, readys in 5 minutes - damned good Stylus Player, hqplayer embedded, roon - qobuz is possible but euphony really need to make that better! 

- pro roon (with euphony core)  - pleasant way  - good qobuz implementation but i dont like that i dont have direct Access to the Music Folder structure

- pro volumio: free ( qobuz 3€/month), fast and easy Installation, Sound: close to euphony, really good qobuz implementation

best,

sunny

Thanks @Holzohr! That's unfortunate...

On 3/16/2019 at 3:24 AM, tims said:

Thanks for the review.  Do you know if its possible to run Audirvana with the Euphony OS rather than the Stylus player?

 

NO, the Euphony )Sappears to be a closed system that only allows its own software player or HQplayer embedded or Sqeezebox & Roon. HQplayer embedded would require you to subscribe/pay the HQplayer separately  I don't think Audirvanna even has linux support. 

5 hours ago, Poldi said:

Maybe a dumb question, but how do I turn on legacy boot on a NUC7PJYH? I can't find any corresponding entry in its BIOS. (also using search for "legacy")

And the option to turn on/off UEFI boot is greyed out.

 

@bobfa I think you got a NUC7i7DN board, right? Is it possible that my NUC has lesser options in its BIOS than yours?

 

At Euphony Audio they told me that an internal SSD works with UEFI but it didn't work either using the trial image. Or is the trial image just for USB flash storages and the SSD image is different?

I use the same image for SSD as for USB but I have already paid for Euphony OS when I tried the Euphony OS in SSD. Arthur would need to re-register if you switch hardware. I think the trial should work with SSD boot too. I recently have tried euphpny V3 trial on USB stick but it won't boot into my Macbook Air, (V2 works fine). Not sure why. 

On 3/17/2019 at 1:01 AM, dc-audiogeek said:

 

I sent an email to Arthur letting him know of all the recent interest in Euphony on this forum. I'm sure he'll drop by soon.  😉

Greetings computer audio enthusiasts. I will do my best to check on this thread and answer some questions.

Dear Arthur,

You are most welcome! Euphony gives us hope that we have found a good sounding, stable and easy to use OS.

I sent a question through the site if Firewire cards work with Euphony but never got a reply, any one tried it?

11 minutes ago, kravi4ka said:

Dear Arthur,

 

You are most welcome! Euphony gives us hope that we have found a good sounding, stable and easy to use OS.

 

I sent a question through the site if Firewire cards work with Euphony but never got a reply, any one tried it?

I don't think firewire audio interfaces have been tested. Arch Linux does have support for many firewire audio devices so there is a good chance it should work. 

Wow, that was fast!

Thanks, I will report if it worked.

Hi @ArthurPower and welcome to AS 

I am in the process of building me a dual pc setup and I want to keep it like that. I have learned from @bobfa that Euphony os can be configured as both a server as well as the steamer so that is good. But if I go for Euphony do I need two copies/licenses at two times the prices?

Rick