DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring

StreamFidelity · February 23, 2020

Hello everybody,

the first parts have arrived.

1.3 Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3.6GHz - 5.0GHz OctaCore - HD Graphics 630

The CPU is actually packed in a cube, as can often be seen in photos. Some will now wonder why the boxed version when the tray (bulk) versions are cheaper? The boxed version comes completely new from the manufacturer and has a manufacturer's guarantee of 3 years. Tray versions only have a legal guarantee (Germany 1 year) and they can be Return items. The latter was far too risky for me. I just put up with the useless packaging.

Solstice380 · February 23, 2020

On 2/22/2020 at 5:54 AM, Energy said:

I definitely miss the sound stage of DSD512 so much that I sometimes go back to the AMSDM7 512+fs modulator just to play DSD512 with acoustic music for a better sense of head space.

I feel the same about the 256/512 difference - but I’m just not sure if the Lampizator DSD512 implementation is just optimized that way. 🤪

basillus · February 23, 2020

23 hours ago, ray-dude said:

I've had tremendous results using custom made polished hardened Aluminum bowls with high precision ball bearings. By far the biggest impact on my DAC, but very audible benefits on the server as well. Interesting to see a commercial option. After some experimentation, I ended up settling on a shallow bowl (5" diameter). The Magic Spacers look like they have a much deeper bowl.

Looking forward to hearing your findings and following along this project!

Hip-joints the Barry Diament's version of a roller-block is made by Ingress

http://www.ingress-engineering.ca/products-and-services.php

and the area the ball can move is very important, concave and large...

Nenon · February 23, 2020

On 2/22/2020 at 4:30 AM, rafa said:

I tested 6 different DDR3 RAM modules and agree that it's quality most important.

But about timings I have opposed opinion. Maybe that depends on definition, what is "better"

DDR3 RAM?!? You, should have started with that. We have been talking about different memory type then - completely different ways of optimizing the two.

StreamFidelity · February 24, 2020

1.8 HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX

This well-known DC-ATX converter has also arrived. This device has the task of distributing the 20V input nicely to the Molex-PC connectors in the 12V + 5V + 3V output. This is the preliminary power plan:

The main purpose of our project is to replace the cheap accessories with high quality cables from fis Audio. Bernd already has some ideas.

elan120 · February 24, 2020

4 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

This is the preliminary power plan

FWIW...be very careful setting up the "Optional" power plan. When doing the parallel power supply configuration, especially with a dynamic load like PC, it could be quite involved to get the setup correct. Even with carefully aligned output voltage from each supply, it would be important to have a feedback network specifically designed to accommodate load sharing error signals. It is likely more beneficial to have a single, appropriately selected power supply.

I did a quick bench check on HDPlex 800 DC-ATX unit, when both Group1 and Group2 are connected, Group1 EPS output 12.23V and Group2 EPS output 12.33V, this is a bit over 0.8% of output regulation, which is too close to the typical suggested boundary of maximum +/-1% with static load for me to use it as a way to do load sharing, since most of the current will be drawn from Group2 instead of sharing from both supplies. When using two different power sources without carefully adjusted output voltage from each supply and no feedback network, the result likely be better to go with just a single top quality supply.

Just my $0.02...Btw, looking forward to more of your progress posts.

StreamFidelity · February 24, 2020

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

I did a quick bench check on HDPlex 800 DC-ATX unit, when both Group1 and Group2 are connected, Group1 EPS output 12.23V and Group2 EPS output 12.33V, this is a bit over 0.8% of output regulation

Thank you for this hint. This is really a problem that concerns me. A Keces P8 with 20V/8A is normally sufficient. The biggest load of my reference audio PC, which also uses an i9-9900K and the HDPlex 800 DC-ATX unit, is 20V/6A if loading komplex filter. Normally only 20V/3A. It is interesting that Group 2 is put under a higher load at the beginning. Later that almost similar between group 1 and group 2.

In our project, the second Keces P8 with 12V/8A is optional to have more headroom. In my experience, that promotes sound. The advantage of Keces P8 is the extensive protection:

Output voltage 12V
Over Voltage Protection 12.5V
Under Voltage Protection 11.5V

If necessary, group 2 is automatically switched off. We will see ...😉

elan120 · February 24, 2020

15 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

The advantage of Keces P8 is the extensive protection

It might be a good idea to check with Keces on this. One thing to keep in mind is pending on the combinations of power supply output resistance, output voltage from each supply, output current can actually go negative, which is an indication of current flowing directly into output of one of the power suppliers. Some power supply topologies would be tolerant of such a condition, but many (most?) would not. The two modes of protections provided by P8 likely don't cover this condition, so to be on the safe side, better check with them whether their power supply has protection to support load sharing.

Normally, I try to keep power supply operating at no more than of 75% of its rated output to ensure there is enough headroom, more headroom certainly is better, so hopefully your project will work fine with just a single supply.

motberg · February 25, 2020

I have setup 2 i5's similarly, and used a 10A on the HDPlex 400 DC-DC just for the 24 pin and then another 12V 10A direct to the EATX.

My current i7 control PC uses a HDPlex 400W ATX LPS just for the 24 pin... another 10A direct to the 12V EATX.

Everything runs super cool... all peripherals and SSD's, cards, etc. use separate LPS's

A friend's research (using a bunch of MPAudio LT3045's and other regulators ) concluded that in his build the 5V was most important to the sound quality, so that may be a good indicator to consider to keep as much headroom there (on the 24 pin) as possible.

just looking at Ghent's prices as a base reference... I guess the fis stuff is going to be somewhat expensive 😁

Nenon · February 25, 2020

3 hours ago, motberg said:

A friend's research (using a bunch of MPAudio LT3045's and other regulators ) concluded that in his build the 5V was most important to the sound quality

This is interesting. In my tests, the EPS connector is the most important to the sound quality. Can you please share what motherboard and CPU your friend used in his testing? I remember that on low powered motherboards the 5V made bigger difference and benefitted by oversizing the power supply a little. The reason for that might be that the oscillators might be using that rail, but that is just a guess.

3 hours ago, motberg said:

just looking at Ghent's prices as a base reference... I guess the fis stuff is going to be somewhat expensive 😁

The Neotech wire is $3 per foot, and that's the best conductor Ghent offers. The Mundorf silver/gold wire I use in my DIY DC cables is $33 per foot.

Although this thread is intended to focus on commercial cables at some point, I would like to point out that I have not heard a better DC cable than the DIY recipe I have shared with everyone yet. I do encourage people who are looking at the best of the best to give it a try. The best thing (for some) is that this is a DIY cable that you can do on your own, which makes it a great value for the money. The bad thing is that it's a DIY cable, which means not everyone can make them.

@Blackmorec wrote an awesome review about a week ago and told me today they got even better:

@Dev made one of them too and liked them better than his reference AudioSensibility solid core silver cable.

Another member pinged me a couple of days ago and told me that the DC cable made much bigger difference than replacing the regular RAM with Apacer RAM. And for those of you who have tried the Apacer RAM, you know than means a lot.

I am following this thread with pleasure and waiting to see what fis would come up with. Anything that sounds better is always welcome. The more good products we have, the better!

And just for completeness, you can find the DIY DC cable recipe by following the link in that post:

motberg · February 25, 2020

8 hours ago, Nenon said:

This is interesting. In my tests, the EPS connector is the most important to the sound quality. Can you please share what motherboard and CPU your friend used in his testing? I remember that on low powered motherboards the 5V made bigger difference and benefitted by oversizing the power supply a little. The reason for that might be that the oscillators might be using that rail, but that is just a guess.

Yep - he was using a small server MB, not sure the model but it was one of the small Supermicro server boards....

I am using a dual PC setup now, but have enough extra stuff to build up a nice single box for Euphony trial, so am following this closely ... and of course thanks a million for all your posts from the other thread...

dminches · February 25, 2020

8 hours ago, Nenon said:

I remember that on low powered motherboards the 5V made bigger difference and benefitted by oversizing the power supply a little. The reason for that might be that the oscillators might be using that rail, but that is just a guess.

What makes a motherboard "low powered?" In my build I am powering the 24pin ATX by using an HDPlex 800W DC-ATX powered by the Keces 20V/8A. The EPS is powered by a straight run from a 400W HDPlex LPS. The jcat cards are each powered by separate 5V LPSs.

Nenon · February 25, 2020

14 minutes ago, motberg said:

Yep - he was using a small server MB, not sure the model but it was one of the small Supermicro server boards....

4 minutes ago, dminches said:

What makes a motherboard "low powered?"

I was referring to some tests with the SuperMicro A2SAV-L motherboard, similar to what Innuos uses.

dminches · February 25, 2020

42 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I was referring to some tests with the SuperMicro A2SAV-L motherboard, similar to what Innuos uses.

I see. I am using what is likely considered a full powered motherboard (Supermicro X11SCH).

StreamFidelity · February 26, 2020

It goes on. 👌

1.1 HDPLEX 2nd Gen H5 Fanless Chassis

The Audio PC case came just right to the workshop with Bernd (fis Audio). When discussing the required internal DC cables, we discussed the position of the installed components and the length of the cables to the Molex sockets. How good that everything is already drawn on the base plate.

All required drill holes are absolutely perfect and the right screws and nuts were included. The case itself does not come ready built, but must be screwed together. That was done quickly. We positioned the mainboard and the DC-ATX converter accordingly and were able to determine the cable route and the cable length. The cables will never criss-cross, as is often seen.

Nenon · February 26, 2020

Why don't you rotate the HDPlex DC to DC convertor 180 degrees and move it to the left where the AC to DC adaptor is marked to be? Something like this (although this is the 800W DC to DC):

This would keep all cables shorter. The downside is that you may need new holes, but I think it's totally worth the effort.

Linmon · February 26, 2020

On 2/21/2020 at 3:13 PM, Nenon said:

The 2666MHz Apacer RAM running at 2666MHz sounds better than the 2400MHz Apacer running at 2400MHz or any slower speed.

I went to Apacer's website and found many choices, Please excuse me if I missed the answer for this question I'm about to ask - Do you have a Apacer Product part number as per your reference of the 2666MHz Apacer RAM running at 2666MHz ?

Thanks

elan120 · February 26, 2020

14 minutes ago, Linmon said:

Do you have a Apacer Product part number

Here is the Apacer part number: D31.23185S.001

Solstice380 · February 26, 2020

Someone, not me(!), bought out Mouser’s entire stock of this RAM. Looks like they have 10-15 sticks on order per month.

Linmon · February 26, 2020

17 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Here is the Apacer part number: D31.23185S.001

Thanks, that makes purchasing much easier - I'm sure I would have surely messed this up without the info.

Linmon · February 26, 2020

1 hour ago, Solstice380 said:

Someone, not me(!), bought out Mouser’s entire stock of this RAM. Looks like they have 10-15 sticks on order per month.

The B-st-rds !

lwr · February 26, 2020

2 hours ago, elan120 said:

Here is the Apacer part number: D31.23185S.001

Could you please provide the part number for the equivalent in an 8GB capacity?

elan120 · February 26, 2020

1 minute ago, lwr said:

Could you please provide the part number for the equivalent in an 8GB capacity?

Sure, I will get that information later when I get home, as I don't have it with me at work.

StreamFidelity · February 26, 2020

4 hours ago, Nenon said:

This would keep all cables shorter. The downside is that you may need new holes, but I think it's totally worth the effort.

That is a legitimate indication. As a possibility, we want to keep the space on the left free for other modifications.

Your power supply with the HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX looks very good! 👍

elan120 · February 27, 2020

5 hours ago, lwr said:

Could you please provide the part number for the equivalent in an 8GB capacity?

The 8GB Apacer WT ECC DDR4 UDIMM part number is D31.23245S.001

DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring

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