Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

kaka · June 21, 2021

On 6/16/2021 at 11:03 PM, TheAttorney said:

I took my DAVE and HEKse's to the dealer last Saturday. To get a reference point, we first attached DAVE to Innuos Statement (via USB and running latest 2.0 o/s and latest 795 Roon).

Would have been interesting if you had tested the Statement playing without Roon

A quote from one of the responses in the Innuos 2.0 thread "No afraid I never tested Roon + Squeezelite on InnuOS 1.x. My system was delivered by the dealer with Roon active, but after I tried and compared it to InnuOS I switched off Roon and haven’t been back, given that I’ve read nothing on the internet to encourage me."

On 6/16/2021 at 11:03 PM, TheAttorney said:

TheAttorney · June 22, 2021

On 6/21/2021 at 4:02 AM, kaka said:

Would have been interesting if you had tested the Statement playing without Roon

Yes it would have been interesting - but I've tried to explain in my previous posts that my primary objective was to decide if the MU1 (plus a collection of T+A headphones and amps) gave a sufficiently impressive performance to take it (and them) for a home trial. It would have taken too much time, and would have confused me with too many variables, had I diverted from whatever defaults the dealer had prepared.

So Round 1 absolutely does not conclude whether MU1 is better or worse than the best that Statement could potentially offer.

OTOH, if Roon on Statement is so unimpressive, then the Innuos guys are clearly missing whatever magic sauce the Grimm guys have concocted. And it appeals to my minimalist tendencies that Grimm have managed to achieve this with a tiny lightweight SMPS (compared to the Statement's massive, heavy power supply designed by the top class Sean Jacobs).

In the meantime, I've had the MU1 at home for over a week now and have come to a firm conclusion, but I'm on the road for a while, so won't be publishing Round 2 for a couple of days. The suspense....

FredM · June 22, 2021

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

I've had the MU1 at home for over a week now and have come to a firm conclusion, but I'm on the road for a while, so won't be publishing Round 2 for a couple of days.

Good to hear, hope you like it and your search is over

TheAttorney · June 24, 2021

My MU1 impressions - Round 2.

The MU1 on home trial replaced my existing components as follows:

SR7 p/s with 3 DC cables powering: NUC > USB cable > IsoRegen > USB cable > M-scaler > 2 x BNC cables > DAVE

was replaced with:

MU1 > AES cable > DAVE

Both MU1 and M-Scaler were set to their maximum upscaling (4FS and 16FS respectively) as this sounded best in both cases.

As start point, I was feeling pretty good about my NUC-based system. Although many here at AS have gone much further than I at optimising their NUCs, I still felt I had a high performing system, with the excellent Euphony Stylus carefully tweaked to give a well balanced sound with no obvious downsides. And the superb Mundorf gold/sliver DC, Sablon 2020 USB and Vertere Pulse HB BNC cables all being "end game" cables IMO that significantly lifted overall performance.

However, much of the NUC was still stock, such as the USB output coming straight off the board, so I knew that further improvement was possible. So on balance, I had no idea how this test would go. The worst possible outcome would be that MU1 sounded a bit better, but that I had to strain to hear the difference. In which case, I would be in a dilemma between my downsizing objective vs only minimal SQ improvement for the high cost of change.

As it turns out, it took only seconds of the first track to realize that the MU1 was performing in a higher division. To sum it up in a single phrase, I would say that "the MU1 is an open window into the recording studio". Every tiny detail, at any frequency, was presented untarnished and without smearing. I was having to re-appraise albums that I thought I knew well. The most worthwhile change was for my "ok" albums (ones that were fairly good but unremarkable) - these could take on a new lease of life. Audiophile recordings also improved, but these had previously sounded great anyway. No recording ever got worse, but some changed character as the "open window" exposed every characteristic of that recording.

There are some caveats:

1. The above WOW effect occurred with the dealer-supplied Audioquest Diamond AES cable (around £900). The SQ went down significantly (softer with loss of fine detail) when I tried the AES>BNC converter cable. My understanding was that this was supplied by Grimm, but the wire was by Belden, with Neutrik XLR plug at one end and Canare RCA plug at other end, onto which was a hard RCA>BNC converter.

From my spares box I had some sensible, no-nonsense "pro" microphone XLR cables (in the £20-£40 range). The Van Damme sounded slightly better than the Belden, and the Sommer Carbokab 225 sounded quite a bit better than the Van Damme, but not as good as the AQ. So the AES cable is critical to get the best out of the MU1 and I'm undecided what to do about it. Sticking with the Sommer for the moment.

2: I tried Roon's DSP for PEQ and cross-feed and this was an obvious step down from bit-perfect (as it has been every time I've tried Roon's DSP in the past). So MU1's magic does not extend to Roon's internal DSP algorithms, which is a great shame, but not surprising.

3. I felt that MU1's "gold disc" volume control slightly reduced transparency (compared to leaving it at 0dB and solely using Dave's volume control). This was subtle and requires further tests to be conclusive.

That's all for now folks. In Round 3, I'll comment on MU1's look&feel and practicalities.

PS. I did buy the MU1 🙂

FredM · June 29, 2021

Congrats with your decision!

After your search, great to see it ticked the boxes! Happy listening 👍, I’m looking forward reading about your hands on experience in round 3.

Regarding the AES cable, earlier in the topic some AES cables are mentioned, perhaps this is helpful. As an alternative you could have a look at the Grimm SQM, which is introduced at about the same time as the MU1.

Link to Grimm SQM

TheAttorney · July 11, 2021

My MU1 impressions - Round 3. Look&feel and practicalities.

The MU1 in real life looks just like I expected from the photos.

It doesn't scream heavy weight "high end" extravagance. It's more about simple, restrained elegance.

Grimm wisely chose well to give the gold disc a very matt finish so it doesn't look too blingey against the matt black enclosure.

That restrained gold disc helps give a Japanese Zen-like vibe to the minimalist enclosure. With the display switched off in standby mode and cables hidden round the back, the MU1 doesn't even look much like a hifi component - which resulted in an unexpectedly high WAF rating from my wife.

The display is clear and unexpectedly useful. It's great to use Roon's "music magazine" UI for discovery etc, but sometimes I want to just listen to music, and for those times I queue up a couple of albums, enable roon-radio, and then close my control laptop. The MU1 display shows, amongst other things, the artist/album/track/progress and one can pause/restart by pressing the gold disc. Even better would be if one could skip track forward and back - I understand this feature will come with the IR Remote Control functionality due in the next firmware release (due around August).

My downsizing objective insists that networking is via WiFi (direct to my broadband router in another room), so I don't have to bother with long ethernet cables, super switches, super clocks, super power supplies etc etc. The tiny Wifi dongle recommended by Grimm (TP-link WR802N) is matcbbox sized and works better than I could have hoped for: it's powered by one of MU1's USB ports, with the supplied ethernet cable plugged into the ethernet socket. It consumes less than 0.5W power and automatically comes off and on when MU1 is put in/out of standby. But best of all, I can barely tell the difference in SQ (when playng local music files) whether or not this dongle is active - not bad for £26 including the skinny USB and ethernet cables. There could be some wishful thinking clouding my judgement here. In a future firmware release (after remote control), Grimm are aiming to provide USB-only WiFi support, at which point I will be able to try an even simpler WiFi solution.

The MU1 consumes about 17W AC power when playing music (no DSP), which drops slightly to 16W when music stops.

And drops to just under 5W in standby mode. Before removing the power cord, the instructions are to press a tiny button round the back. This definitely does something because the LED light goes out, but interestingly the power consumption stays at 5W, so I'm guessing that this micro switch isolates a particularly sensitive bit of circuitry, without fully switching off the whole unit, which leads me onto the fuse....

The back fuse drawer contains 2 fuses (630mA and, unusually for AC, rated as FAST BLOW). The first one you come to is a spare. All this is important because I've confirmed to myself that the fuse does impact SQ (I'm a committed fuse-o-phile, so this should be no surprise). More about that on my 4th and final round about cables and tweaking.

Any downsides?

Not much. I find the LED light, even at its lowest setting, too bright for night-time listening. Grimm told me it can't be set any lower with current hardware, so this won't be changed any time soon. I've carefully dabbed the tip of the LED with a black marker pen and this helps tone down the brightness.

The main display is also too bright for my liking (to be fair, most manufacturers' LED/displays are too bright for me). Grimm are aiming to add some adjustment for this at a future firmware release (after the remote control one).

In short, I'm very happy with my MU1 🙂.

mrkoven · July 12, 2021

Is it just me or is the internal shot of MU1 kind of uninspiring for $10K? It's half empty, no transformers onboard either?

Compared to say an Antipodes K50..

stefano_mbp · July 12, 2021

@mrkoven
I don’t own Antipodes nor Grimm but:

you are comparing a 15k$ server (Antipodes K50) with a 10k$ server (Grimm MU1) … not so … fair
Antipodes K50 is the top of the line and uses an internal LPS, that’s why you see transformers
Grimm MU1 uses custom internal SMPS
Grimm MU1 is based on Intel Nuc (as can be easily seen in the picture you attached) not passively cooled
Antipodes K50 is passively cooled thanks to a custom chassis

… very different beasts …

the opposite result can be observed if you compare the Grimm MU1 to the Antipodes S30 …

FredM · July 12, 2021

5 hours ago, mrkoven said:

Is it just me or is the internal shot of MU1 kind of uninspiring for $10K? It's half empty, no transformers onboard either?

Hmm, it's your choice if you want to judge a product based on the components used.. When you go back a few pages in this topic you'll find some insights/video's how Grimm products are designed. But you're lucky, in this MU1 review some comparisons with the K50 are made: Grimm MU1 | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews (hifi-advice.com)

TheAttorney · July 17, 2021

My MU1 Impressions - Round 4. Cables and tweaks.

AES Cable.

In my earlier rounds I had confirmed to myself that the AES cable is critical to MU1's performance. It's not that a stock cable will sound bad, more a case that a top cable really brings out the goose-bump factor. The £900-ish AQ Diamond sounded great, but was a bit too cumbersome for my liking, so in the meantime I lived with the sensibly priced Sommer microphone cable. But I was missing that goose-bump factor, so I tried a local dealer for some Shunyata cables - none were readily in stock for demo, so instead I tried on loan his favourite AES cable, Esprit Elite, as well as a Cardas Clear. And, because I had previously been impressed with the superb Sablon 2020 USB cable, I also managed to get my hands on a Sablon AES cable. All 3 were in the same ball-park price range.

The Cardas Clear gave a well balanced sound, but rather unremarkable against the better sounding Esprit. But inserting the Sablon AES was like upgrading a major component - goosebumps appearing all over the place! This Sablon had the very large and pricey optional Bocchino platinum-plated connectors (which apparently every Sablon customer now goes for). The other notable feature is that the cable is thin, reasonably flexible and has no screening! Whatever, the Sablon sounds fantastic and is staying. Compared to the memory of the AQ Diamond, the Sablon has at least as much (probably more) detail and dynamics, but presented in a more full-bodied, "organic" and natural manner. What's not to like? Well, the over-sized, no-nonsense, industrial-style Boccchino connectors don't have any "bling" features like carbon-fibre, gold or chrome detailing that you typically get with other TOTL connectors. It's all about the sound.

Fuses.

From my spares box, I tried the SR Blue and Orange. I kept any mains-related swaps to a minimum and also rigorously followed the recommended shut-down procedure. Nevertheless, it was easy to tell that both Blue and Orange were a worthwhile step or two above the stock fuse. These were only used temporarily as they didn't have the exact fuse rating. I'm undecided what rating to actually buy - as SR fuses have a reputation of prematurely failing at the recommended rating, which is an expensive hobby. The other thing I noted was that fuse direction matters in this situation as it has in previous situations - which any Sound Scientist will gleefully tell you that this is simply impossible by the laws of physics.

Power Cord.

To my existing elderly Audience Powercord E and ClearerAudio Silverline (both around £500), I had on loan a Vertere Redline and Shunyata Delta V2. The striking thing was that I could easily tell the different characteristics between each of these power cords. The Delta sounded best, but I wasn't convinced that the SQ improvement was worth spending £1k to replace my ClearerAudio (not the same goose-bump factor as the Sablon AES gave), so no decisions made at this point. But having established that power cords do matter, I'm strongly considering the pricier Sablon Elite as a next step.

Any other tweaks?

I'm tempted to open up the MU1, but it's not obvious how to do it (anyone tried this?), so I'm leaving that alone. Which means I won't try replacing the stock RAM with my "industrial" Apacer RAM that proved so successful in my previous NUC. And I won't try lining the inside of the enclosure with EMI/RFI-absorbing paper.

And I don't want to spoil the MU1's Zen-like elegant appearance, so I'm in no rush to by-pass the stock footers with any inevitably clumsier-looking audiophile footers. So, apart from the power cord next stage, no more tweaks from me, but I'm always interested in what others have done.

Kenkuan · July 18, 2021

So far, I've gather from some of the helpful feedback in this forum that synergies can be gotten to ekk out "something" extra by using the PhoenixNet and Sablon AES. Really intrigues me...

May I know what DACs do you folks use with MU1?

TheAttorney · July 18, 2021

4 hours ago, Kenkuan said:

So far, I've gather from some of the helpful feedback in this forum that synergies can be gotten to ekk out "something" extra by using the PhoenixNet and Sablon AES. Really intrigues me...

May I know what DACs do you folks use with MU1?

My MU1 goes AES direct to a DAVE DAC/headphone amp.

But I think it's an oversimplification to imply that PhoenixNet or Sablon are the only things that have great synergy with the MU1.

For example, a while back someone raved over the Shunyata Omega AES cable. I would have liked to try that one, but its price was way more than I'm prepared to pay for a single cable.

From what I've learned so far, the MU1 is affected by much the same surrounding components as any another digital device I've come across. I had wished it wasn't so. Because the MU1 had successfully isolated the noise created by Roon, I did wonder whether it could also isolate the noise from the mains supply etc. It would have saved me much money if I could have connected stock everything to the MU1.

But I'm not complaining - making Roon sound so good is a big step further than just about any other manufacturer has managed to achieve (I don't think the $25k Extreme would be a fair comparison here).

Kenkuan · July 18, 2021

Yes, you are right, many more tweaks can be explored. It's just that whenever I read experiences that something supposedly non-trivial or magical comes along, I have to imagine how it improves the quality I'm already getting, so just intrigued until I take the next step... which led to the acquisition of the MU1. 😅

BTW, I'm still on stock power, generic Lan and TPR AES cables.

SackATK · July 21, 2021

On 7/18/2021 at 6:19 AM, TheAttorney said:

My MU1 goes AES direct to a DAVE DAC/headphone amp.

But I think it's an oversimplification to imply that PhoenixNet or Sablon are the only things that have great synergy with the MU1.

For example, a while back someone raved over the Shunyata Omega AES cable. I would have liked to try that one, but its price was way more than I'm prepared to pay for a single cable.

From what I've learned so far, the MU1 is affected by much the same surrounding components as any another digital device I've come across. I had wished it wasn't so. Because the MU1 had successfully isolated the noise created by Roon, I did wonder whether it could also isolate the noise from the mains supply etc. It would have saved me much money if I could have connected stock everything to the MU1.

But I'm not complaining - making Roon sound so good is a big step further than just about any other manufacturer has managed to achieve (I don't think the $25k Extreme would be a fair comparison here).

TheAttorney, I enjoy your posts and learning of your experiences with the MU1 and associated tweaks. I too wished the MU1 was immmune to its surroundings but my own experimentation proves to me this is not so.

Grimm Audio has done such a wonderful job of designing what happens inside the golden dome black box. They put a lot of effort into the AES output and it would be less than ideal to limit this in any way with any ho hum AES cable. I decided to bypass the upgrade game and go straight to what I thought was the best AES cable I can get and that was the Shunyata Omega. Other cables may be good enough, but that's for each listener to try and decide.

For your next tweak, I would highly recommend a very good network switch designed for audio. I have the PhoenixNET but less pricey ones may be good enough. I don't know because the PhoenixNET is the only swich I've ever used. Again, I went straight to what I thought was best. I want to share this experiment I did just minutes ago. The well regarded ENO ethernet cable and ethernet filter connects the MU1 to the PhoenixNET. I turned off the MU1 and disconnected the ENO system from the PhoenixNET and inserted it directly into the router, thus bypassing the PhoenixNET. I turned back on the MU1 and had a listen on the Kii Threes. The music got smaller as if it was put into a box. It lost some magic and fun. Many good musical attributes went downhill. This was remedied when I reverted the network changes. You don't know what you have until it's gone. In my music system that is designed to reduce all kinds of noise, the PhoenixNET was a major upgrade and for me the network switch is a necessity for maximum performance. With the MU1 and the tweaks I've done directly before it and after it, I've surprised myself at where I am on my audio journey. I know I can improve the system further but I would not mind staying put for a very long time.

SackATK · July 21, 2021

I should mention both the MU1 and PhoenixNET are powered by Shunyata V14 Digital power cables. The modem and router are powered by an HDPlex 300W LPS that is itself powered by a Shunyata Delta V2 NR and everything AC is connected to a Shunyata Everest power distributor.

TheAttorney · July 21, 2021

7 hours ago, SackATK said:

For your next tweak, I would highly recommend a very good network switch designed for audio.

From many posts here at AS, I have no doubt than super switches and super ethernet cables can make a big difference to networked hifi. And several people have raved over the PhoenixNet, so I'm sure it's one of the best. But some still say that disconnecting the network entirely from the server (after buffering the music file) sounds best of all. So even the best switch/cable is still not perfect.

But as I stated in earlier posts, I've bypassed all that cable spaghetti by using a WiFi dongle that connects by WiFi to the broadband router in another room. This dongle's impact on SQ is insignificant compared to say, upgrading the fuse - and I've proven this to myself by unplugging the dongle whilst listening to a local music file - I can't reliably tell the difference. TBH, I do hear differences, but I can't reliably say which one I prefer. For just £26 that must be the bargain of the century.

It is possible that once I restart streaming services like Qobuz, I might then notice more clearly what impact this WiFi dongle is having, but in the meantime I really don't care and just enjoy what's in front of me 🙂.

haltermr · July 31, 2021

Hi All;

I am looking for the simplest way to get good sound out of the Roon interface. I will be auditioning the Grimm. Out of curiousity, anyone here consider the Aqua Linq with HPQ/NAA module? It seems like another plug and play (and expensive) way to get the best sound while using Roon as an interface.

Thanks

Rick

FredM · August 10, 2021

On 7/31/2021 at 7:03 PM, haltermr said:

I will be auditioning the Grimm. Out of curiousity, anyone here consider the Aqua Linq with HPQ/NAA module?

Hi Rick,

It seems not that many Grimm MU1 users have considered the Aqua Linq as an alternative. I’m afraid that I also can’t help you. I hope you’ve found answers elsewhere.

Have a nice day, Fred

aangen · August 18, 2021

I am pretty excited. I have an MU1 not exactly speeding my way. It is going to be a couple of weeks or more. But gosh, this toy could shine in my little setup.
I am going to trust that it’s a fine choice and order the top of the line Stealth Audio AES/EBU cable to see how that works. It could be fun.

Cacto C · August 20, 2021

On 7/21/2021 at 1:04 PM, TheAttorney said:

From many posts here at AS, I have no doubt than super switches and super ethernet cables can make a big difference to networked hifi. And several people have raved over the PhoenixNet, so I'm sure it's one of the best. But some still say that disconnecting the network entirely from the server (after buffering the music file) sounds best of all. So even the best switch/cable is still not perfect.

But as I stated in earlier posts, I've bypassed all that cable spaghetti by using a WiFi dongle that connects by WiFi to the broadband router in another room. This dongle's impact on SQ is insignificant compared to say, upgrading the fuse - and I've proven this to myself by unplugging the dongle whilst listening to a local music file - I can't reliably tell the difference. TBH, I do hear differences, but I can't reliably say which one I prefer. For just £26 that must be the bargain of the century.

It is possible that once I restart streaming services like Qobuz, I might then notice more clearly what impact this WiFi dongle is having, but in the meantime I really don't care and just enjoy what's in front of me 🙂.

Hi TheAttorney,

Any updates of your experience of MU1? I enjoy reading all yours very much.

I have a MU1 too, waiting for the firmware update to enable SPDIF, to connect directly to Dynaudio XD60 active speakers. (Currently using an $10 AES > RCA adapter).

I also am using an AES cable with a surprise to see direct 4FS (192k) support by Chord Dave.

Thank you. :)

Peach_core · August 21, 2021

It looks like the most valuable part of MU1 is the FPGA, representing the core tech of Grimm I guess. The rest part are NUC, SMPS and chassis, all average components.

BTW, Grimm just issued the UC1, an pro ADDA converter. The DAC inside MU2 might come from here.

TheAttorney · August 23, 2021

On 8/20/2021 at 7:15 PM, Cacto C said:

Hi TheAttorney,

Any updates of your experience of MU1? I enjoy reading all yours very much.

Regarding power cord upgrades, I decided to save money at this stage by simply upgrading the plugs of my modest ClearerAudio Silverline. In my earlier shoot-out, the ClearerAudio was beaten by the £1k Shunyata Delta V2, but not by such a big margin that justified the cost. The new plugs for my ClearerAudio seem to be going through the longest burn-in period I have ever encountered, so I need a few more days to be sure it's been worth the change.

In the meantime, I've been reading with interest the K50 thread at WBF, which had a link

to HFA's Christiaan's comparison of MU1 vs Antipodes K50.

Plus a June update to HFA's more detailed MU1 review in

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/network-player-reviews/grimm-mu1/4/

which on page 4 describes recent incremental improvements to series 003 (that I already have).

Anyway, on that WBF thread @kennyb123 (a K30 owner I think) gave a list of reasons why MU1 didn't even get to his shortlist: low powered CPU, Roon-only, SMPS, etc. The thing is, I looked at this from a completely different angle by using much the same criteria to give the MU1 a try because I was so intrigued that such seemingly mundane components could add up to a giant-killing performance. Which is only valid if the performance is indeed great, so what did the reviewer say?....

On the video, Christiaan effectively called it a draw, with the MU1 being more neutral/open/transparent/dynamic (yes, even with a low-powered i3 CPU!) and the K50 being more characterful/warmer/relaxed. He maybe should have also pointed out that the K50 costs around 50% more than the MU1 (but does have more features). The more detailed written review seems to pull the MU1 slightly ahead as per this summary on page 3:

"I certainly would not have expected it after raving about the K50 relatively recently, but the MU1 has impressed me deeply. It may not offer all of the big Antipodes server’s functionality, but sonically, it takes what the K50 does, which is to sound like music, not clinical computer replay, while further adding to it to provide the best I’ve heard yet from a Music Server!"

Anyway, this is not a competition. These and the Statement etc are all great products and we each have our own preferences and we each will be delighted with whatever we choose - it's all good. The purpose of me bringing it up is a reminder not to make judgements based on specifications - wait until you actually hear the product under consideration. In some ways, this is Grimm's biggest hurdle to be accepted in the high-end community. And yes, we all have to make a short list because it's highly impractical to listen to every possible rival. So maybe Kenny has missed out by not hearing the MU1, and maybe I missed out by not hearing the K50, but it doesn't matter as long as we each enjoy whatever we ended up with.

kennyb123 · August 23, 2021

2 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Anyway, on that WBF thread @kennyb123 (a K30 owner I think) gave a list of reasons why MU1 didn't even get to his shortlist: low powered CPU, Roon-only, SMPS, etc. The thing is, I looked at this from a completely different angle by using much the same criteria to give the MU1 a try because I was so intrigued that such seemingly mundane components could add up to a giant-killing performance. Which is only valid if the performance is indeed great, so what did the reviewer say?....

Yeah I did say that. I had laid out MY selection critical for buying a server. I wrote the following.

Sever should be capable of dynamics and transient speed - music must come to life. Low power CPUs are not good at this.
Two-tier architecture seems like a great way to keep noise further away from the DAC - but it must not sacrifice the ability for music to come to life.
Upgrades should offered to help keep a server investment reasonably up to date. The upgrades should be transparently communicated.
Numerous software options should be offered. HQPlayer should be one of them (for me).
Great pre- and post-sales support. Mark Cole offers a level of service I've not had with other providers.
There should be a community forum with employees actually participating. I purchased my K30 knowing that Antipodes was going to be launching their own forum. Taiko really sets a very high standard in this with their participation in their thread here on WBF.
Company should be more well-established. I think both Auralic and Innuos were still too early in their growth when I owned their products. Nuno the Innuos CEO was actually doing support calls himself. It seemed he was stretching himself too thin by not growing his staff (I think that changed sometime last year).
The server should allow me to install my own drives. I shouldn't be locked into the drive that was installed when I purchased the server.
The company should't push me towards getting support from their dealers. I wanted to be able to interact directly with folks like Mark.

And then I said this about the Grimm:

“Interesting box but it wouldn’t have made my short list. I base that mostly on the software selection as my brief skimming of the review and software manual lead me to believe that Roon is the only choice. Also I’m not a fan of it having a SMPS or of running server apps on a low power CPU (core i3) or of it having only a single SSD that has to be selected when purchased. But other than all that I’m sure it’s a really good sounding server - just not for me.”

My criteria was about things other than sound quality as sound quality is often a moving target. Roon has generally been getting worse while other options are generally getting better. Also with servers advancing so quickly it’s not just about the box I buy today.

Grimm being Roon-only was an absolute deal-breaker for me. I didn’t find Roon/RAAT listenable/enjoyable on my previous Innuos Zenith Mk3 and my current K30.

The video does an okay job of comparing the servers, but it wasn’t apples to apples as he used the AES output on the Grimm. This does 4FS upsampling so he was feeding the DAC a signal that wasn’t bit perfect. He should have tried to match that using HQPlayer on the K50.

I upscale all my music to 16FS so this would be another reason I’d have to eliminate the Grimm from my shortlist.

I think he’s right though that the Grimm might be the better choice for some people. Like if they have an older DAC that accepts only as high as 4S on AES, then this could be a great match. USB is where all the action is happening though on newer DACs (for the most part). I think a server with more options will be more future proof.

Thanks for tagging me @TheAttorney

TheAttorney · August 23, 2021

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I upscale all my music to 16FS so this would be another reason I’d have to eliminate the Grimm from my shortlist.

I think he’s right though that the Grimm might be the better choice for some people. Like if they have an older DAC that accepts only as high as 4S on AES, then this could be a great match. USB is where all the action is happening though on newer DACs (for the most part). I think a server with more options will be more future proof.

Being a HMS/DAVE owner, I was also concerned that MU1's 4FS would be at a disadvantage against my existing 16FS.

But as described in earlier posts, my concerns were unfounded - 4FS out of MU1 easily beat 16FS out of the HMS. This I think is more to do with the inherent goodness of the MU1 server vs my previous NUC than it has to do with any failure of HMS' up-scaling.

The K50 is definitely more flexible, so more future-proof in some ways. However, for my downsizing objective to reduce box count, the built-in DAC option (MU2) coming up next year for MU1 owners will eliminate the digital interface entirely. So it won't matter what FS is used, as I'm sure the designers will choose the best FS for their built-in DAC, without cable limitations.

I'm not trying to change your mind or objectives because they all make sense, just again reminding that relying on past experience is fine to a point, but it's also good to be open-minded when coming across a company that doesn't necessarily follow current trends and dares to do things differently.

kennyb123 · August 24, 2021

2 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Being a HMS/DAVE owner, I was also concerned that MU1's 4FS would be at a disadvantage against my existing 16FS.

But as described in earlier posts, my concerns were unfounded - 4FS out of MU1 easily beat 16FS out of the HMS. This I think is more to do with the inherent goodness of the MU1 server vs my previous NUC than it has to do with any failure of HMS' up-scaling.

The K50 is definitely more flexible, so more future-proof in some ways. However, for my downsizing objective to reduce box count, the built-in DAC option (MU2) coming up next year for MU1 owners will eliminate the digital interface entirely. So it won't matter what FS is used, as I'm sure the designers will choose the best FS for their built-in DAC, without cable limitations.

I'm not trying to change your mind or objectives because they all make sense, just again reminding that relying on past experience is fine to a point, but it's also good to be open-minded when coming across a company that doesn't necessarily follow current trends and dares to do things differently.

Excellent reply! I was careful above to say that it was MY criteria. Portions of that came from hoping to not repeat some prior mistakes. I can easily see someone having a different list. I am actually delighted to hear that you are delighted with the Grim. It’s wonderful that there are a number of great options.

In my case K30 alone was better than Zenith Mk3 plus HMS. I sold the HMS to help pay for the K30. But PGGB factored heavily into that - as did reducing the box count. K30 playing PGGB’d tracks is really something special.

Interesting about the upcoming MU2. I’ll keep an eye out for the reports here. Yes it's also ‘good to be open-minded when coming across a company that doesn't necessarily follow current trends and dares to do things differently’.

Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

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