TEAC UD-701N - Undiscovered gem or farce

According to the instructions, the SYNC setting is for when your clock is hooked to more than one device on in your system.

BTW, if anyone is going to Axpona, stop by the Scaena room (Epiphany) and say hi.  Ask for Bob :)

3 minutes ago, rblnr said:

According to the instructions, the SYNC setting is for when your clock is hooked to more than one device on in your system.

 

BTW, if anyone is going to Axpona, stop by the Scaena room (Epiphany) and say hi.  Ask for Bob :)

Yes, that is clear from the manual. But what does the SYNC setting actually do? What does it process clock-wise other than the reference clock pulse? I would probably not ask if the SYNC setting would sound better in my case (with multiple clocked devices) as expected, but it does not.

On 4/12/2023 at 3:47 PM, bodiebill said:

 

Yes, that is clear from the manual. But what does the SYNC setting actually do? What does it process clock-wise other than the reference clock pulse? I would probably not ask if the SYNC setting would sound better in my case (with multiple clocked devices) as expected, but it does not.

Have you tried removing the Mutec from the chain?

It sounds like you might not need it.

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

Have you tried removing the Mutec from the chain?

It sounds like you might not need it.

 

ON (DIN ASYNC)

This unit’s master clock will be synchronized to the 10MHz clock input through the CLOCK sync input (10MHz IN) connector.

• When the input source is COAXIAL, OPTICAL or Bluetooth, select this when only this unit is synchronized with external clock.

ON (DIN SYNC)

This unit’s master clock will be synchronized to the 10MHz clock input through the CLOCK sync input (10MHz IN) connector.

• When the input source is COAXIAL, OPTICAL or Bluetooth, select this when both this unit and the digital audio output device are synchronized with the same external clock.

NOTE

NOTE When the input source is USB or NET (including USB flash drives), operation will be the same when set to either ON (DIN ASYNC) or ON (DIN SYNC).

If I would remove the Mutec (Ref10 SE120), these Q&A's would be moot as there would not be an exterrnal clock, and OFF on the Teac would be the only working setting. I agree that I do not 'need' the Mutec, but the resulting sound without it is considerably less pleasing. Current setup:

stand alone USB player > USB > Audio-GD DI20HE DDC > spdif RCA > UD-701N

Both the DDC and the DAC are timed by the Mutec.

39 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

If I would remove the Mutec (Ref10 SE120), these Q&A's would be moot as there would not be an exterrnal clock, and OFF on the Teac would be the only working setting. I agree that I do not 'need' the Mutec, but the resulting sound without it is considerably less pleasing. Current setup:

 

stand alone USB player > USB > Audio-GD DI20HE DDC > spdif RCA > UD-701N

 

Both the DDC and the DAC are timed by the Mutec.

My question was whether it sounds better without the Mutec and ASYNC.

What about USB vs. your S/PDIF setup?

Today I downloaded new system firmware for the UD-701N:

https://teac.jp/int/support/news/7140

However, following Teac's instructions for system firmware update

https://manuals.plus/teac/ud-701n-music-player-manual#axzz804g86GbQ?utm_content=cmp-true

I cannot get it to install. I first installed the DFU driver and went through the steps, but when I start the UD-701N_updater_136.exe file I get the message below. I tried 5 different micro usb cables.

Any idea?

I ran into the same issue, but changing the cable resolved the problem. Make sure that the cable supports data transfer (typical phone charger cables wont work).  

49 minutes ago, celestial_sound said:

I ran into the same issue, but changing the cable resolved the problem. Make sure that the cable supports data transfer (typical phone charger cables wont work).  

Thanks! And indeed, cable number 6 did work. Upgraded now to 1.36 :-)

Glad to hear! Keep enjoying :) 

1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

Question: is there any way to access the contents of such a usb drive -- while attached to the DAC -- from a PC or otherwise?

Question answered in the meantime: yes. But alas no editing (adding/removing files) seems possible.

Finally someone did a lab test on the UD-701N (https://reviewary.com/teac-ud-701n-review/).

Unfortunately, this unit doesn't measure extremely well like some chines competitors do, but that doesn't change the fact that it sounds magnificent!

31 minutes ago, celestial_sound said:

Finally someone did a lab test on the UD-701N (https://reviewary.com/teac-ud-701n-review/).

Unfortunately, this unit doesn't measure extremely well like some chines competitors do, but that doesn't change the fact that it sounds magnificent!

 

Thanks for posting this.  I know it’s subjective opinion, but even from such a well established reviewer it seems a rather unusual position to find that “ESS offer listeners silky smooth sound….Think of ESS as a warm cosy bedroom”.  I know implementation is all, but from experience, I’d describe ESS based DACs as tending towards a superdetailed, lean sound and with potential to sound hard, flat and fatiguing without careful implementation.

With my admittedly limited knowledge I’m also a bit confused from this review as to the UD701 tech - I thought it was a 1bit delta-sigma DAC but based on it’s own discrete solution rather than off the shelf chips, but the review describes it as multi-bit. Can a DAC be described as being both delta sigma and multibit?  Maybe 2 different paths involved as per T&A etc?

I'm not entirely sure whether TEAC uses separate path for DSD and PCM albeit they support native DSD. This is from their website "DSD signals are transmitted as is, while PCM signals are transmitted after passing through a ΔΣ modulator and conversion to 1-bit signals."

2 hours ago, celestial_sound said:

I'm not entirely sure whether TEAC uses separate path for DSD and PCM albeit they support native DSD. This is from their website "DSD signals are transmitted as is, while PCM signals are transmitted after passing through a ΔΣ modulator and conversion to 1-bit signals."

It is always a DSD-DAC. So there is only one D/A conversion path and that is DSD. DSD goes straight through there, while PCM inputs are first converted to DSD internally before passing to the D/A section.

39 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It is always a DSD-DAC. So there is only one D/A conversion path and that is DSD. DSD goes straight through there, while PCM inputs are first converted to DSD internally before passing to the D/A section.

 

Yep you are right. This is manufacturer response on my email enquiry. 

"Our delta sigma modulator is the multi-level delta sigma modulator, that outputs in 9 levels/values, from 0 to 8. The basic delta sigma modulator normally outputs in 1-bit, but we modified to output in multi-level for the tolerance to clock-jitter or solution for resonance.

For example, in the 48kHz system of audio signal, it outputs 9 values 6.144MHz/12.288MHz/24.576MHz for x128, x256 and x512 settings"

@Miska One more question. If fhe source signal is DSD, and the multibit pcm setting is active on the UD 701, does that mean the signal will be converted? Or DSD signals are always unchanged and outputted as 1 bit stream

@Miska Sorry, I think I wasn't clear enough with my previous question. Let me rephrase

Does playing DSD source like HQPlayer bypasses both the internal oversampling and delta sigma modulator of the UD-701N?,

Another review of UD 701N with a direct comparison to Esoteric N05-XD 

https://www-audionet-com-tw.translate.goog/thread-15974-1-1.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 

On 4/7/2023 at 12:50 AM, bodiebill said:

Yesterday I received my UD-701N and I love it already. It was a "second deal" and indeed, it seems already broken in. Sound was great from the start: detailed, 3D, fluid, velvety and wonderful bass.

 

I am still a bit confused regarding the Teac's upconvert / Fs process, as shown by my following question:

 

My settings are
- upconvert: x8
- DeltaSigma Fs: 256 Fs (or 512 Fs)
- PCM Delta Sigma: DSD (1 Bit)
- DSD Low Pass Filter: FIR1

 

When playing a 44.1 kHz wav file I would expect that the Teac's INFO button would show

    PCM 44.1kHz => DSD 11.2MHz

as per the example in the manual. However it shows

     PCM 44.1kHz => PCM 352.8Hz

 

Am I missing something?

That's a very positive first impression, especially given your baseline of the A26 & R8. Appreciate from your subsequent posts (incl re use of the DI-20HE) it sounds like you're still in the process of finding optimal settings etc, but I'd be interested in your thoughts as to where it sits relative to those DACs, which I realise are themselves very different and in a different price class. This was on my radar when I got the R26 last year, but had next to no reviews or user experience back then, so great to seeit is getting some increasing exposure, positive user impressions.

Sorry for jumping in you discussion @Jakenz, @bodiebill I just want to share my impression on the configs.

My personal choice is multi-bit PCM with 512x fs and on some occasions 8x up-conversation. This config I feel gives me best low frequency definition, widest soundstage, best clarity and air around the instruments. Switching to 1 bit DSD FIR-1 gives a bit of roundness and smoothness which is also really nice but in my opinion it sacrifices clarity, air and definition.  Switching the up-conversion algorithm on (8x fs) gives me shimmering and sparkle to the cymbals which i really like but I feel it trades a bit timbral accuracy.