Qobuz May Be Removing Music, and Files, Even if Purchased

always upload your purchases > always download your purchases. (The word télécharger means both, so the context dictates which is correct.)

I can sort of understand it… their rights/distribution agreements change with time, so they’re aligning their online repository accordingly (adding or removing titles etc).

They've obviously realised this has an impact on people who have paid (or will in the future) for a download (& maybe not yet downloaded), so they’re changing their terms.

The only point of interest is how long should a provider keep a copy for you after you’ve bought a download ? It’d seem reasonable to give a period of a few weeks, but I don’t see why they should have to maintain an archive of out-of-license material for a lengthy period… few months maybe ??

14 hours ago, krass said:

I can sort of understand it… their rights/distribution agreements change with time, so they’re aligning their online repository accordingly (adding or removing titles etc).

 

They've obviously realised this has an impact on people who have paid (or will in the future) for a download (& maybe not yet downloaded), so they’re changing their terms.

 

The only point of interest is how long should a provider keep a copy for you after you’ve bought a download ? It’d seem reasonable to give a period of a few weeks, but I don’t see why they should have to maintain an archive of out-of-license material for a lengthy period… few months maybe ??

I agree, the real entity at which our ire should be directed is the label/labels or rights holder likely requiring Qobuz to make this change, or who knows, the alternative may be to lose access to ALL of that labels catalog. Download your purchases immediately, and back them up safely and securely to make this a non issue.

This is also a good example of the importance of ownership and having local files versus streaming. An album on your hard drive in a non-drm format is yours forever, ideally. An album on a streaming service is there at the whim of the rights holder and can disappear at any moment.

Might not be the labels.. might just be internal ‘commercial decisions’ on what is affordable/ profitable (though of course the ‘labels’ may be making their own commercial pricing decisions too)

3 hours ago, kirkmc said:

I don't know why anyone is making a stir about it

The way Qobuz worded this, and gave a specific date, made me think this one is a little different. I’ve never seen such a specific email when a company is updating T&C for example. 
 

My first thought after reading the email was that a big label or group was parting ways with Qobuz very soon. Hopefully this is very wrong. 

I agree, the fact that they would warn you suddenly about this does seem suspicious.

This is interesting, and concerning, considering I have NOT received any such notification.  I "shop" Qobuz pretty frequently, and haven't seen any pop-ups, etc., on the website with this communication, either.

It seems to be worldwide (Germany):

Bestimmte auf Qobuz verfügbare Werke könnten aus rechtlichen Gründen aus dem Service entfernt werden. Um unsere Verpflichtungen einzuhalten und den Schutz des geistigen Eigentums an der Musik zu gewährleisten, müssen wir unter bestimmten Umständen den Zugang zu bestimmten Titeln sowohl für den Download als auch für das Streaming einschränken.

In diesen besonderen, wenn auch seltenen Fällen können ab dem Datum der Entfernung die Titel, die von den Kunden bereits im Qobuz-Store gekauft wurden, nicht mehr erneut heruntergeladen werden. 

Es sind keine Maßnahmen Ihrerseits erforderlich, aber wir empfehlen Ihnen, Ihre Musikeinkäufe immer so schnell wie möglich herunterzuladen und extern zu speichern.

Wenn Sie unsere Dienste weiterhin nutzen, erklären Sie sich mit der automatischen Aktualisierung der neuen Bedingungen ab dem 1. Oktober 2024 einverstanden.

Torben

It makes me wonder if the company is going to be sold, and they’re planning for big changes and warning people. Though that’s not much warning. It’s only a week away.

... and now I got a list of SPECIFIC recordings that are going to be removed.

Nothing I can see in common - a couple of Chandos recordings (not all of them I've purchased), one Chaconne, one of the Haydn 2032 series (but not all of them), one independent release ...

I could understand the Chandos issue (given they're going to be shutting down their download service soon), but seems it would be ALL of them (not just a couple), and the others are just random, as far as I can tell 🤷‍♂️

Odd, Chandos shutting down their own download sales shouldn't have anything to do with what they sell on other platforms... 

I also received an email from Qobuz (France) this morning.

"Re: Téléchargez votre musique avant son retrait     
    
Bonjour,
Nous vous contactons pour vous informer que certains albums et pistes que vous avez achetés sur Qobuz ne pourront plus être disponibles pour un re-téléchargement à partir du 1er octobre 2024.

Pour respecter nos engagements et garantir la protection de la propriété intellectuelle sur la musique, nous devrons empêcher l’accès à certains titres, tant pour le téléchargement que pour le streaming. Nous vous encourageons à télécharger une dernière fois les albums et pistes concernés avant leur retrait définitif.

Voici la liste des œuvres impactées :

* (album title)   

    
Télécharger mes achats     
    
Nous tenons à vous assurer que nous faisons tout notre possible pour minimiser les perturbations pour nos clients et pour que ces retraits restent exceptionnels.

Nous sommes à votre disposition pour toute question."
    

*(soundtrack from "Superfly" on Rhino)

The general content seems similar to the notices posted above relating to purchases from Qobuz in other countries.   However, I noticed a sentence in the French version that doesn't appear to be in the other notices.

 "Nous tenons à vous assurer que nous faisons tout notre possible pour minimiser les perturbations pour nos clients et pour que ces retraits restent exceptionnels."

My translation: "We want to assure you that we are doing everything we can to minimize disruptions to our clients and to keep these withdrawals exceptional."

Which I took as notifying me to the same thing I've seen happen elsewhere with other download sites, e.g., on 7digitalCanada, I'd estimate around 1/6 or so of my purchases have been subsequently withdrawn for streaming or download, without my receiving any advance notice.  Sometimes they've seemed to be withdrawn quite soon after I've purchased them.

Given that, on its own, I took the notice I received from Qobuz France to be a reminder to download 'em or risk losing 'em, rather than implying anything more drastic (e.g. buyout/takeover)

2 hours ago, jhwalker said:

... and now I got a list of SPECIFIC recordings that are going to be removed.

 

Nothing I can see in common - a couple of Chandos recordings (not all of them I've purchased), one Chaconne, one of the Haydn 2032 series (but not all of them), one independent release ...

 

I could understand the Chandos issue (given they're going to be shutting down their download service soon), but seems it would be ALL of them (not just a couple), and the others are just random, as far as I can tell 🤷‍♂️

how do we find that list...I did receive their "warning" email but, naturally, the first thought following is what portion of their catalogue is to be removed...hard to respond to the information without specifics as to labels, etc.

The email I received this afternoon from Qobuz with a list of purchases which they recommend downloading if not already done, contains 32 albums.

Of these:

25 are Chandos

2 are Harmonia Mundi

1 is Myrios

1 Atma

1 Bis

1 Pentatone

and 1 unknown, which is not something I purchased but which Qobuz may have confused with another disc from Bis.

I have tried to find a pattern and it appears that all or at least many of the items listed in the email have already been made unavailable for purchase but they are still available at a higher Sublime price. In the past I have sometimes noticed that Qobuz have more than one entry for the same recording, this has often been the case with Chandos. The Mozart Piano Concerto series with Bavouzet often had two or three entries for the same volume, 2 for Hi-Res at widely different Sublime prices, £6.50 versus about £9.13. There is also sometimes a third entry for the 16-bit version even though the 16-bit is available on the same page as the Hi-Res.

Now it appears that those cheaper entries are being removed. They are not visible on the web and when looking at my purchases in the Qobuz Windows app it says for these albums 'The rights holders have not made the purchase of this release possible'

But the album is still available for purchase on the web site with the higher priced entry. If I put one of these in my basket and view the basket there is no warning to say that I have already purchased it, but a warning will still appear for other albums that I have purchased.

It is like the two different HI-Res entries are being treated as different albums.

I tend to think that Qobuz or another party (the rights holders) have discovered these lower priced entries and they are having to be removed. Perhaps the planned closure of the Chandos download site is connected to this discovery.

I haven't received the email from Qobuz. I wonder if they are only sending it out to people who have purchased an album from the Qobuz download store that is impacted.

I've only purchased a couple of albums from Qobuz. If those albums aren't being removed from Qobuz in October, there would be no reason to send me a warning about it.

2 hours ago, RichardSF said:

I haven't received the email from Qobuz. I wonder if they are only sending it out to people who have purchased an album from the Qobuz download store that is impacted.

 

I believe that is correct, over the years I have purchased 359 albums from Qobuz but the email I received from them only lists 32 of them as being no longer available for download after 1st October. But I expect everyone should have received the email about the change of Qobuz general terms and conditions, that was sent to me 2 hours before I received the email containing the list of purchases specifically affected.

Qobuz created quite a stir with such e-mails. I found a similar discussion thread with specific examples starting here:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/qobuz-music-streaming-discussion-and-news.762960/page-40

(beginning just a few posts down on that page).

Just FYI.

Also here:

https://community.naimaudio.com/t/qobuz-changes-to-re-downloading-purchases-list-yours-region/36784

So, some albums previously purchased will no longer be available for re-download. That’s understandable. But will these albums be available for streaming, without purchase and download? I’m only interested in listening, I don’t buy/download anything on Qobuz. 

"When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose"?

1 hour ago, AnotherSpin said:

So, some albums previously purchased will no longer be available for re-download. That’s understandable. But will these albums be available for streaming, without purchase and download? I’m only interested in listening, I don’t buy/download anything on Qobuz. 

 

"When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose"?

The e-mail says "both for downloading and streaming". So do fear for the worst.

2 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

So, some albums previously purchased will no longer be available for re-download. That’s understandable. But will these albums be available for streaming, without purchase and download? I’m only interested in listening, I don’t buy/download anything on Qobuz. 

 

From the list of albums I received it appears Qobuz are removing duplicate albums. The ones at the lower price are disappearing and have already gone in the cases that I have checked but the same albums are still available at the higher price for streaming and purchase. For example I bought Harmonia Mundi - Brahms: Piano Sonatas - Melnikov in 16-bit on 11/04/22 at £7.59 but at the same time there was another entry for exactly the same 16-bit album at a significantly higher price. That higher price one is still visible for streaming and purchase at £10.49 while the cheaper entry has already disappeared.

We won't know for certain until after 1st October but I believe most of these albums will still be available but people who purchased the lower price entry will no longer be able to download their purchase and also will not be able to download the higher price entry without repurchasing.

The Qobuz database of albums has always been a mess, with the search facilities often giving bizarre results and many albums having multiple entries. Perhaps these lower priced entries have been put in by mistake and infringed an agreement with the rights holders or maybe this is just a simple clean up of the database.

In my view Qobuz are giving excellent customer service in providing a list of those purchases affected and advising people to download before 1st October. Obviously it is always best to download immediately after purchase and make backups.

On 9/24/2024 at 2:15 PM, kirkmc said:

always upload your purchases > always download your purchases. (The word télécharger means both, so the context dictates which is correct.)

I was wondering that - kind of like "transfer"?